Why does Moz recommend subdomains for language-specific websites?
-
In Moz's domain recommendations, they recommend subdirectories instead of subdomains (which agrees with my experience), but make an exception for language-specific websites:
Since search engines keep different metrics for domains than they do subdomains, it is recommended that webmasters place link-worthy content like blogs in subfolders rather than subdomains. (i.e. www.example.com/blog/ rather than blog.example.com) The notable exceptions to this are language-specific websites. (i.e., en.example.com for the English version of the website).
Why are language-specific websites excepted from this advice? Why are subdomains preferable for language-specific websites? Google's advice says subdirectories are fine for language-specific websites, and GSC allows geographic settings at the subdirectory level (which may or may not even be needed, since language-specific sites may not be geographic-specific), so I'm unsure why Moz would suggest using subdirectories in this case.
-
Thanks, I'll send you a PM.
-
Ah, I think we are getting to the root of the problem here.
If we are talking about hreflang used correctly between two identical pages that are translated, everything Google has stated about hreflang is that it acts as a canonical. The alternate language pages would be treated as changes of each other. Ranking is more than just link equity though, so where you rank is more than that.
In your specific situation, I see a few problems outside the use of hreflang. Can you share the domain you are talking about? If you're not comfortable sharing it here, please message me with it. There might be other things at play confusing the Google algorithm. But I need to see for sure.
After spending the last five years looking into international expansion of websites, I can say for sure I don't recommend subdomains for language translations. It's due to the fact that using subdomains isn't very clean and doesn't work well if you want to expand to country specific content in the future.
The way I read the original Moz post on subdomains is that the use of hreflang helps some of the assumed negatives of using subdomains, but subdomains are not the recommended solution. Mind you, the "negatives" of subdomains have not been proven in all cases either.
Let me know about your specific case and I'll see what might be happening.
-
OK, that's very good to know. I missed that.
Here is the Google source I found that implied that hreflang tags do not combine/consolidate link metrics:
"Generally speaking, the rel-alternate-hreflang construct does not change the ranking of your pages. However, when a page where you use this markup shows up in the search results, we may use this markup to find alternate, equivalent pages of yours. If one of those alternates is a better match for the user, their query language, and the location, then we may swap out the URL. So in practice, it won't change the ranking of your pages, but it will attempt to make sure that the best-suited URL (out of the list of alternates) is shown there." ~John Mueller
This seems to be describing a "swap out" effect rather than a consolidation of metrics. In my mind, that sounds different. It sounds like what John is saying is that "if your main site ranks for the keyword "barcelona" in English search results, if someone searches in Spanish we'll give you the same ranking, we'll just display your Spanish URL instead". That seems different from a consolidation to me (the Spanish URL isn't being given the link authority from the main URL to help it rank for other Spanish keywords, it's just being swapped out in SERPs where the English URL already ranks). Of course Google hasn't released the details so I'm guessing a bit here.
"Gianaluca was speaking of multiple "sites" but this is translation."
My issues is where multiple sites and translations are the same thing, i.e. when you have different language versions of your site on different subdomains. Gianaluca seems to be saying that hreflang will not consolidate link authority across your sites that are in different languages. Here's another source saying the same thing: https://www.semrush.com/blog/7-common-hreflang-mistakes-and-how-to-fix-them/
I've got a situation now where it appears that Google is not consolidating/sharing link signals efficiently between the language versions that are hosted on separate subdomains. My concern is that part of the issue may be the fact that the different lanaguage versions are on different subdomains. That's why I'm keen to know why Moz excepts language-specific websites from their "no subdomains" advice.
Any thoughts?
-
Gianaluca was speaking of multiple "sites" but this is translation. Google does say it in fact:
"By specifying these alternate URLs, our goal is to be able to consolidate signals for these pages, and to serve the appropriate URL to users in search. "
https://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2011/12/new-markup-for-multilingual-content.html
-
"use hreflang and that acts like a canonical"
Google and other sources don't indicate that hreflang will pass/consolidate link authority. So I think hreflang and canonical tags are different in that regard. Based on that and what I've seen, I don't see that hreflang tag would negate the disadvantages of a subdomain. If you have evidence it does, though, I am very interested!
-
I actually disagree with the subdomain exception for languages. You can use a subdomain for languages, but it doesn't look right in my opinion. The reason that text is in there though is because if you use translated content (which is different from regional or country targeted content), you should use hreflang and that acts like a canonical. The possible downsides of a subdomain are negated with that tagging.
The writer of this text you are referencing is not saying subdomains are preferred, merely that with languages the downsides of a subdomain are not applicable.
-
Well - IMHO we are too deep in technology and know differences between multi-regional and multi-lingual sites. But when talking to someone "newbie" he easy can be confused with ton of terms. That's why they give example with something easy to be understanding.
-
"But you can't change server location with subdirectories. With subdomain you can make de.example.com and place this in German server and es.example.com and place this in Spanish server."
What you're talking about is geographic targeting, but Moz was specifically referring to language-targeting. Those are similar, but they are subtly different things.
Language-specific sites are not necessarily targeted to a specific country. They can target multiple countries (eg Spanish speakers in US, Spain, Mexico, etc.) or you might have two Language-specific sites targeting the same country (eg an English and a Spanish site both for the US).
So if a language-specific site isn't a geographic-targeted site, I still don't understand why Moz would recommend a subdomain in that case.
-
Great Answer Peter!
/thumbs
Don
-
Well there are 4 types of multi-lingual or multi-regional sites that are described here:
https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/182192?hl=en
Summary - best is ccTLD, next is subdomain with gTLDS. On 3rd is subdirectory with gTLDS and URL parameters is last.So Moz is trying to diving expert advise to webmasters to NOT use subdomains and giving famous blog example. I fall in this trap almost 15 years ago with subdomain. I wish someone to told me about this then... Other examples can be catalog and different products (catalog.example.com vs. example.com/catalog; product.example.com vs. example.com/product/). This advice in same subdomain keep link juice inside, but you probably know this.
GSC allow setting different directories to specific geo-location. That's true. But you can't change server location with subdirectories. With subdomain this is possible. Example - one company with site of Spanish and German. With subdirectory i have one server and /de and /es folders. But in this case server location is one and only. And server IP is some of signals for geo-targeting so you have tough choice where to be. With subdomain you can make de.example.com and place this in German server and es.example.com and place this in Spanish server.
That's why subdomains for multilingual sites is notable exception of golden rule "do not use subdomains".
Got a burning SEO question?
Subscribe to Moz Pro to gain full access to Q&A, answer questions, and ask your own.
Browse Questions
Explore more categories
-
Moz Tools
Chat with the community about the Moz tools.
-
SEO Tactics
Discuss the SEO process with fellow marketers
-
Community
Discuss industry events, jobs, and news!
-
Digital Marketing
Chat about tactics outside of SEO
-
Research & Trends
Dive into research and trends in the search industry.
-
Support
Connect on product support and feature requests.
Related Questions
-
Sale Pages On An eCommerce Website
I have a client who sells 50 brands of shoes. At the moment the developer has a noindex/nofollow tag on all sale pages which is wrong as around 10% of site activity revolves around those pages. The structure looks like this: 1. For Cats/Sub Cats site/sale
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | Nigel_Carr
site/womens/sale
site/womens/shoe/sale
site/womens/shoes/ballerinas/sale For every cat/subcat - there are 10 cats and average 5 subcats per cat so 50 pages of sale. 2. For Brands site/brand
site/brand/womens
site/sale/brand
site/sale/womens/brand
site/sale/womens/cat/brand
site/sale/womens/cat/subcat/brand So each brand can have four sale pages on top of its own brand page. 50 brands x 54 = around 2700. Now no one is going to start writing 2700 pieces of additional on page content (although Meta is OK! ) and we risk further diluting the brand pages we need to show highly for, so we need to do something. Should we Category Pages: 1. Allow all sale cat and subcat pages to proliferate through Google? or
2. Canonicalise all sale sub category pages back to category
3. Caonicalise all category and Subcategory pages back to sale/womens Brand Pages: 1. Allow all sale brand pages to proliferate through Google ?
2. Canonicalise Sub Cat brand pages back to sale/category/brand
3. Canonicalise Sub Cat and Cat back to sale/brand Note the lower pages never do well in search. If you search a brand + Sale in Google it is always the site/brand page that comes up, never the sale version (This is from research on other similar sites and my own analysis) Same with Sub Cats - eg, Brand + Subcat - it's always site/brand that comes up first wand has the highest PA. Also we can't analyse any of these sale pages in MOZ or anywhere else as they are not in search at all having been no indexed. That's my conundrum for today, Any thoughts would be appreciated!0 -
Unrelated subdomain hurts domain rankins?
Hi All, One of our subdomains has lot of content created by different users and mostly they are outgoing links from landing pages. Moreover the top ranking content is about "cigarettes" which is nowhere related to our niche. Will this hurt our domain rankings?
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | vtmoz0 -
Specific KW question...
Hi, I have this site: http://www.aerlawgroup.com. It's ranking very well overall for all targeted KWs. However, I have seen a drop for one main KW: "Los Angeles criminal defense attorney." It currently ranks #8 (it used to be as high as #2). What's interesting is that for similar (yet slightly less competitive KWs, he ranks much better - "Los Angeles Criminal Defense Lawyer." I'm not trying to be greedy with rankings, but I would love feedback and/or tips regarding any issues that could be contributing to this drop. Thanks.
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | mrodriguez14400 -
Whats up with this website?
cybercig.co.uk Languishing around 150-200 in the rankings, very barely making it above 70. But also ranks for Refillable Electronic Cigarette on the first page. Any ideas whats happening? Not a huge amount of links but I'd have thought it would've been much higher. I'd love to know opinions 🙂
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | jasondexter0 -
Should subdomains be avoided for brand new websites?
When creating a brand new website, will setting it up as a subdomain provide ranking benefits? I understand that if it's an existing domain, it's better to use a subfolder because a subdomain is treated as a different domain. But is there any reason not to start a website with the keyword in the subdomain? For example: keyword.domain.com The SERP's are dominated by websites which contain some variation of the head term, but the disadvantage of doing a similar this is your website looks very similar. Thanks!
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | JonDavies540 -
SeoMoz Crawler Shuts Down The Website Completely
Recently I have switched servers and was very happy about the outcome. However, every friday my site shuts down (not very cool if you are getting 700 unique visitors per day). Naturally I was very worried and digged deep to see what is causing it. Unfortunately, the direct answer was that is was coming from "rogerbot". (see sample below) Today (aug 5) Same thing happened but this time it was off for about 7 hours which did a lot of damage in terms of seo. I am inclined to shut down the seomoz service if I can't resolve this immediately. I guess my question is would there be a possibility to make sure this doesn't happen or time out like that because of roger bot. Please let me know if anyone has answer for this. I use your service a lot and I really need it. Here is what caused it from these error lines: 216.244.72.12 - - [29/Jul/2011:09:10:39 -0700] "GET /pregnancy/14-weeks-pregnant/ HTTP/1.1" 200 354 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; rogerBot/1.0; UrlCrawler; http://www.seomoz.org/dp/rogerbot)" 216.244.72.11 - - [29/Jul/2011:09:10:37 -0700] "GET /pregnancy/17-weeks-pregnant/ HTTP/1.1" 200 51582 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; rogerBot/1.0; UrlCrawler; http://www.seomoz.org/dp/rogerbot)"
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | Jury0 -
What has this subdomain done to recover from Panda?
I found that doctor.webmd.com was affected by Google Panda, and then recovered (if you look at traffic on compete.com). What do you think they did to recover?
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | nicole.healthline0 -
Sub-domains and different languages
Hi there! All our content is in two languages: English and Spanish, but they're basically the same (sometimes longer, sometimes shorter). We have the English content under a subdomain (en.mydomain.com) and the Spanish one under another subdomain (es.mydomain.com). First of all: is that correct? Is it better to have it under folders or under subdomains? But the most important question. When a user enters to mydomain.com is redirected through a 302 to the Spanish subdomain or to the English subdomain, depending on the language of his browser (microsoft.com works this way). We have now a lot of links pointing to mydomain.com but... where is all this link flow going?? Are we losing it? Should we have a landing page under mydomain.com pointing to both subdomains? or maybe redirect it through a 301 to just one of the subdomains, then redirect the user to his language if necessary? Thank you very much!!!
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | bodaclick0