Do You Know What's Triggering Your Local Packs?
-
Hey To All My Local Pals, Here
Recently, I watched a totally fascinating LocalU video in which Mike Blumenthal introduced a hypothesis that there may be a way to analyze what, specifically, is triggering a specific local pack. Now, Mike is stating that correlation is not causation in explaining this, but basically what he starts talking about at around 4:40 in the video is that what you are seeing rank well in the local packs may be demonstrably caused by what you see ranking organically beneath the pack, or may be caused by totally different signals.
Mike says,
_"If you're seeing the top 10 results are all IYP industry sites, and there's a pack showing, and the highest local site is 24 or something in organic, it's unlikely that that's what's triggering the pack. And so then you want to look at third-party triggers and see if that's what's actually triggering the pack." _
Obviously, all of us who do Local are familiar with the idea that a tremendous variety of elements contribute to pack rankings, but I am particularly intrigued by the idea of looking at the organic result beneath a pack and determining that there is little or no correlation between them, and this then driving one to look elsewhere for contributing factors.
In a recent response to another thread here on Q&A, I discussed some common local pack ranking failure causes when organic rank is high. What I'd love to see is whether, if you look at some of your clients' desired packs, can you tell if organic signals are driving them, or can you see that it's not organic signals driving the pack, as Mike suggests. What, in those cases, does appear to be driving the packs?
I'd be so interested in a discussion on this. What do you see? What do you think of Mike's suggestions?
-
Hey There!
Thanks so much for taking the time to contribute to this discussion. The geographic variations you mention sound normal to me, but the issue of the companies consistently ranking highly for no apparent reason is interesting. Are you saying the search is yielding a onebox (just one result) or a normal pack? Is the name of the business an exact or close match of the keyword phrase you're searching for? Is the business right in the middle of a cluster or similar businesses? Sounds like a good puzzle!
-
Good luck, Jason!
-
Miriam,
Thorough and as helpful as possible as always. Thank you so much. Right now my strategy is to really work on those reviews. I'm hoping to get that magic 25 reviews because I think that can help us get to the top. All of our competitors don't even come close and are under 10.
So our goal is in that aspect. My client's target base is made up mostly of those over 40 - 50 years of age so their not as prone to review. Our competitors have fitness members of a younger age, so that's where I'm thinking we have a disadvantage. But I'm hoping to work a little more on that end.
Thanks Miriam!
Jason Khoo
-
Hey Jason!
So glad those tips helped you identify an industry centroid that may be a contributing factor. Way to go! Some thoughts on this:
-
Go into this knowing that it can be VERY difficult to overcome something like this and that your best bet here is likely to be a full, professional audit by a skilled Local SEO consultant. A good place to look for one is the Contributors box on the right side of last year's Moz Local Search Ranking Factors. Here are some questions for you to ask yourself, either for your own purposes, or to share with a consultant.
-
Are you 100% certain that you are located inside of the official city limits? As I mentioned on your other thread, do the Maps lookup of your city name and be sure you are inside of the pink city border instead of outside of it. If you're outside, then the goal of ranking in the Local pack for that city/keyword combo is likely out.
-
If you are inside the city borders, how far are you from the industry centroid? Are any other players as far away as you are and still ranking in the top 10 or so results?
-
If so, do an audit of any competitor that is as far away as you are, but is managing to rank in the top 10 on the Map. Identify every piece of information you can that might be contributing to their rank (age, domain authority, reviews, vibrant content, citations, etc.). Mine this data to see if there is a pattern or a weakness you can identify that you would be able to use to your advantage, with the goal of helping you get into the pack.
-
Do not make the mistake of thinking that the industry centroid is the sole cause of what you are experiencing. If you're outside the city borders, then, yes, that's probably the main cause, but if you're inside the borders, a business which is supremely strong enough should have hope of overcoming an industry centroid bias. But, remember, there may be multiple causes contributing to low rankings.
-
Finally, don't forget that user-as-centroid is likely to overcome industry-centroid bias, in that your customers who are physically closest to you on their phones may be seeing a different set of results, which do include you.
Just some quick thoughts. Hope they help!
-
-
Hi Miriam,
I saw that our prior conversation was continued here. I went back and did some more researching and after reviewing everyting I think I found the issue, it was a Google industry cluster issue. I relooked at Google Maps and typed in "gym in [city]" and I noticed 7 of the 10 listings were all fairly close to the industry centroid designated by Google (which I found through Google MapMaker).
Now that I maybe have identified that issue, I'm wondering if there are any strategies we can to combat this. I don't like to think that our physical location has left us to have to accept lower listings on Google Local Pack. Let me know if you know anything?
As always, thank you!
Jason Khoo
-
Hi Kristen,
Yeah, I just don't think Google+ really caught on the way Google might have hoped. But Posts could totally be interesting, if it becomes widely available.
-
Thanks for the link, didn't know about that. Could indeed be game-changing!
-
Hey Bob,
Thanks for clarifying, and this does not surprise me:
I added keywords to the business titles of Google My Business listings and I saw a big improvement on categories the business didn’t already appeared on.
Good to test this out, but also important not to leave it that way, as adding extraneous keywords is a guideline violation (one which Google may not catch for years, but which they will definitely red flag once they notice it). So, your test confirms what is very easy to see in the local packs - that business title spam is still very much a ranking factor and that Google is still not up the task of policing this.
On the advice from the Google rep, yeah, they really shouldn't have been telling you to post on Plus, given the divorce of local from Plus, unless they felt your business model fits the whole communities thing Google is now promoting with that. Plus has kind of died in terms of its usefulness to local businesses, unless they fit a very specific model. Personally, I'm feeling a lot more excited about this new Posts things. Have you seen this: http://blumenthals.com/blog/2016/03/04/googles-newest-social-sharing-environment-google-posts/
It's a limited test right now, but it could be game-changing. Thanks again for the detailed response, Bob!
-
Hi Miriam,
I added keywords to the business titles of Google My Business listings and I didn’t see any big ranking improvements on categories the business already appeared at.
I added keywords to the business titles of Google My Business listings and I saw a big improvement on categories the business didn’t already appeared on. So adding “SEO” in the business title of an webdevelopment firm could result in them being shown on keywords like “SEO The Hague”.
I Removed keywords from (compeditors) business titles and didn’t see a drop in their ranking visibility.
At this point I believe keywords in the business title could help Google associate your business with a keyword or service type but isn’t (or is only a small) rankingfactor. It’s the difference between being shown, or not being shown at all. Not the difference between position 2 and 3.
Note: I only tracked this with a few Google my business pages for a short period of time.
About the advice from the Google support staff, heard it the last time on 10 dec. 2015.
-
Hi Bob!
Thanks so much for joining the discussion. Are you saying you added keywords to the business titles of Google My Business listings and saw a rise in rank/visibility? Or are you saying you removed keywords? Just want to be sure I'm understanding.
Was the chat with Google support desk some months ago? Google has disconnected Plus from Local, so I'm concerned you may have received outdated advice from Google's support, if it's the case that they are still telling people to post on Plus.
I'd love to hear more, on both points.
-
Hi Miriam and Kristen,
I didn't do a big case study or what so ever on this topic but I reported this kind of keywords in the business title through Google Maps and I didn’t see any noticeable changes after the changes were applied. At least not with the top 3 in the local pack. I can however confirm that adding this information causes fluctuations since I did some testing with a few websites. Although It didn’t cause a big boost it did help a tremendous amount with being shown on certain keywords. Since there isn’t a category for every niche this helped some business being showed on the right keywords on the first place.
This is a subject were a bigger case study will be needed I think.
Btw, another interesting aspect I found is the local business support desk recommending Google plus activity on the account. Views, followers, posts etc. Did get this tips 2 times after I called them a few times. Not sure it works, but we’re trying this out for our own account at the moment.
-
Hi Kristen!
Wow - yes! That's exactly the type of case I find interesting, too. Sadly, as you point out, the old keyword-stuffed business title can still boost a business, despite the guidelines (and, is, of course, something one could report to Google!). I like that you've noticed those authoritative links. Could be a real factor there. It would be interesting to know what would happen to these results if the naming violation were reported and acted upon. You could actually track that and see, then, if that had been the main factor, or if the authoritative links were still enough to keep the business ranking highly.
I'm very appreciative of you contributing what you've noticed, and hope we'll hear more from others
Got a burning SEO question?
Subscribe to Moz Pro to gain full access to Q&A, answer questions, and ask your own.
Browse Questions
Explore more categories
-
Moz Tools
Chat with the community about the Moz tools.
-
SEO Tactics
Discuss the SEO process with fellow marketers
-
Community
Discuss industry events, jobs, and news!
-
Digital Marketing
Chat about tactics outside of SEO
-
Research & Trends
Dive into research and trends in the search industry.
-
Support
Connect on product support and feature requests.
Related Questions
-
Multiple Local Domains and Location Pages Question
Hello Everyone, So we have a priority site (domain.com) but also a geo-specific site for another location we have (domainNYC.com). Assuming both have completely unique content, different contact information and it’s justifiable to have a second domain (i.e. resources, brand/link equity…etc.) would it be recommend to also use the sub-folder approach on our primary (meaning domain.com/nyc)? And then potentially linking to domainNYC.com (just the once, not overdoing it)? Or just play it safe and keep them separate. Our concern is doing both sub-folder and separate domain might cannibalize on local searches resulting in us essentially competing with ourselves for those terms. The benefit would be leveraging the priority domain and driving visitors there. We could always ‘noindex, follow' the sub-folder page so users have access to the address on the primary domain too but wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts or suggestions as well as how it could pertain to linking (scarcely). We have found a lot of information on choosing one over the other but not as much for whether both is recommended so any extra insight would be very appreciated. Looking forward to hearing from all of you! Thank you in advance for the help! Best,
Local Listings | | Ben-R0 -
Local Optimization for Multiple Businesses Issues/Strategy
Hello Everyone, So we have a client with a geo-focused ‘sports’ site but they also have a second site they are using to promote the seasonal camps they run. Local demographics and traffic would be a priority and main source of traffic. We know it would be ideal to have all of it consolidated but in this case a separate site was needed. The camp site would be under a different Name but they do not really have a different physical location from the primary site. Assuming we can’t find a discernable different location we could use; from a local optimization perspective we have two questions: Does that mean that we shouldn’t venture into local listings that need an address and trying to rank for map results and instead shift focus to other local strategies (i.e. geo-relevant content, link acquisition….etc.)? – We don’t want to dilute or devalue the primary site at all but if possible would like to be able to come up for both. Should we avoid listing the address on the camp site as text for similar reasons? We know the same business could be listed for multiple locations but any suggestions on the opposite approach or input would be very appreciated. Please let us know if there is anything we could provide details for that might help. Looking forward to hearing from all of you! Thank you in advance. Best,
Local Listings | | Ben-R0 -
Changing Recognized Address Impact Local SEO
One of my clients is moving offices. They want to change the recognized address from: REAL ADDRESS: 4a Normal Road, Normal Area, City, POSTCODE To: MODIFIED ADDRESS: Fancy Name, Normal Road, Normal Area, City, POSTCODE I imagine this may cause issues when one tries to build some citations, with the address not being recognized by the site. Perhaps there are other issues, can anyone foresee any problems with the change? Local results are very important to this company, would it be better to stick with the real street address?
Local Listings | | GrouchyKids0 -
Business Name Not Showing Up in Google's Maps
I have a client whose name in not currently showing up on Google maps. Their business location only shows once their name or related keywords are searched, but their business name does not show when you only look for it on the map regardless of how far zoomed in you are to the actual location. I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this, or knows of a way to fix this. I have already contacted Google multiple times, and they told me that “business’ names are just randomly pulled”. The client is an HVAC store front business with good rankings and a fully optimized Google profile, so these reasons did not answer the issue. Client’s GMB profile: https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=rothheating oak creeek&oq=rothheating oak creeek&rlz=1C1JPGB_enUS685US685&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.5919j0j4 DBZfF
Local Listings | | JohnWeb120 -
Is the new local 3-pack the death of Google+ as factor?
So now we have the new 3-pack local results, which obviously cut the listings Google+ link from the results. What I find strange is that is now even when searching the business name alone, there is no sign of the associated Google+ page in the results. I still get other local third party listings like Facebook, Yellowpages, and Yelp – but no link anywhere for the Google+ page. I noticed this today when I wanted to verify something on a client’s page. There was nothing I could do search wise to bring up this business Google+ page. I finally got it by clicking the link through Moz local. After exploring this with some other clients, when I do get a Google+ page in the search results some have produced a 500 error when clicked on. If Google wasn’t killing off Google+, why would they completely omit the pages from their own search results? Another extremely strange thing, the majority of my clients are independent local businesses inside a large national company. Their Google+ listings have always been managed corporately using a bulk listing feed. We could never gain access to these pages and would always manage our listings to match that of the corp. controlled page. Well the last week of July they announced they were giving us the option to take control of the page. This happened with two different companies, MAJOR national competitors in the same industry, within a couple days of each other. They now treat it just like another version of social media, instead of a major factor within search. I find it hard to believe that something isn’t going on…
Local Listings | | masonrj0 -
Local link building
Hi, I am looking to ask for peoples experience on getting local links and the best and most successful approaches made. Let's say we have a local sports physiotherapist and wants to engage with local sports clubs, running clubs, etc.. What are the best methods for an agency to deploy to try and build relationships and links. Our client may have treated some of the local sports club members but as an agency we may not have the specifics. What success have Marketing agencies got with emails, telephone, site visits etc in order to assist with building good quality relevant links. What success do you have with offering discounts to build links or promoting competitions and offering guest blogging at a local level. Are there other tactics, such as linkedIn or engaing on other social channels. It would be nice to find out others experiences what ever the business sector for building local links. Many thanks in advance to all those who contribute.
Local Listings | | smartcow0 -
Business from UK Showing up in Canada local search, how can I report it?
Hello Everyone, So we have a problem. There is another business with the same name as ours showing up on Google Local/ Google maps when I type in our business name in Google. Our name is Brighton College, and the other business is Brighton College, however they are from the UK. They are showing up on the right hand side with their wikipedia page and on Google Maps and we aren't, but I'm searching in Canada on Google.ca across the street from our college. Any idea on how to fix this? Thank you!
Local Listings | | jhinchcliffe1 -
What to do if the domain name is very different from real business name for local listings
Hey guys, any advice is very welcome , I m´ ranking locally a website in the bay area for cabinets www.cabinetsbayarea.com we picked this domain name more for SEO purposes because it has the two most important keywords that we want to rank. My issue is that the real busniess name is HEMA DESIGN CENTER, so i dont know if we should change the name in the chamber of commerce to CABiNETS BAY AREA or list the business as HEMA DESIGN CENTER, with this website www.cabinetsbayarea.comr. We only mention the real name in the About Us. CABINETS BAY AREA it is more as a deparment of the real business name HEMA DESIGN CENTER What should i do? Thanks a lot, David
Local Listings | | conexion330