Big Problems Using &'s in Business Name?
-
One of my clients is a law firm with a Business name like the following:
Rosenberg & Dalgren, LLPThey get A TON of organic search traffic on their brand name above, but most people (95%) search "Rosenberg and Dalgren" instead of "Rosenberg & Dalgren". **Notice use of ampersand being used and alternatively, the word "and" being used. ** Currently, their local citations across the Internet (G+, YP, Yelp, etc) use the business name, "Rosenberg & Dalgren, LLP" (with ampersand).
Here is the dilemma we are in...
When someone searches "Rosenberg and Dalgren" in Google (which the majority of our search traffic does), Google does NOT show our local one-box on the right hand side of the SERPs (see example of a one-box I am referring to here http://blumenthals.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Screen-Shot-2013-09-28-at-9.59.58-AM.png).
But when someone searches "Rosenberg & Dalgren" in Google, it does trigger our local one-box with photos, review ratings, links to our Google+ Local page, etc. WHICH IS GREAT! They have AWESOME reviews that command powerful social proof. We want that local one-box to show up!
So my question is, what can I do to trigger that local one-box for both brand name searches for "Rosenberg & Dalgren" as well as "Rosenberg and Dalgren"?
I am considering changing our NAP citations to have the business name be "Rosenberg and Dalgren" since that is what 95% of people search in Google to find them. I am guessing Google doesn't quite understand that "Rosenberg and Dalgren" is linked to "Rosenberg & Dalgren" via what it sees in the knowledge graph of the Internet (citations, website, etc).
So how best should I handle this and get that local one-box triggering for the majority of our branded search traffic?
Lastly, what is the best advice for including company/corporate designations in the NAP citations? (ie. LLP, LLC, Inc, etc)
Thank you for any help and guidance! We appreciate it!
-
Hi Again,
I figured that must be the case, with the fictitious name. Totally respect your NDA, but need to mention that this makes it impossible to research nuances that might be affecting the firm uniquely. There could be so many factors involved.
Regarding the comma, best practice is to use a single format across all listings of the business, whether with or without the comma. I've never seen this issue formally addressed by Google, so we have to go with a 'it's safe to say' stance here. In other words, it's safe to say that keeping your business title formatting identical will free you of the possibility of problems, while any discrepancy might put you at risk for problems. Upshot: aim for total consistency here.
-
Hi Guys, thanks so much for some great insights and thoughts on how best to proceed. I am going to try some of your suggestions and I will be sure to report back on any findings and results.
Miriam - I am using a closely similar, albeit fictitious name, because I had to sign an NDA with this law firm.
I do have a final, somewhat related question for you two...
When building citations, should the law firm list their business name as...
Rosenberg & Dalgren, LLP (notice us of comma before LLP)
- or -
Rosenberg & Dalgren LLP (notice no comma before LLP)
Does it even make a difference whatsoever?
Thanks!
- or -
-
Gbkevin - one other thing I wanted to ask about. Where is the business located, and are you providing the real name of the law practice? When I searched for the business name you used, I found zero record of it in Google, so I'm kind of surmising that this may not be the actual business name. Please let me know if this is so, and also, the country in which the business is located.
-
Hi Dana,
Thanks for the list of ampersand brands! Fun.
The thing about this that is odd to me, from a local perspective, is that I know Google can surface a onebox/knowledge graph for law firms with both the ampersand and non-ampersand versions of their names. I've seen it. This may all boil down to authority or a lack thereof. Interesting.
-
I've seen this problem rear its ugly head in a number of instances that cause various, interesting problems. For example, there are two major Audio Video brands: Allen & Heath and K & M Stands that both feature ampersands in their branding. The problem we've had with it is from a database perspective. Ampersands just cause all kinds of problems. Still, these brands have been around a long time.
Think "M&Ms" - no one really searches "M and M" [unless it's "Eminem" ] - So, I think it's a matter of choosing one for branding purposes and sticking to it. In your case, with a law firm, searchers are really searching proper names (I'm thinking). So if I were to search for a string of last names, I might be more likely to use "and" instead of "&" - Until the "&" becomes part of the branding, I think Google is probably going to defer to the "and" version. Even if the law firm was huge, I'm not sure it would ever reach that level of brand recognition. Some successful brands with ampersands [Just for fun!]:
H&M, A&W Rootbeer, A&P Grocers, Proctor & Gamble, B&H Photo, Bang & Olufson, AT&T, Ben&Jerry's, Arm&Hammer, Boys&Girls Clubs of America, A&M Records, Bed, Bath & Beyond, Johnson & Johnson, H&R Block, Ernst&Young, Fod&Wine, Black&Decker
(Thanks to Sporcle, but they left M&Ms off their list! How can that be?) Thanks for the fun question
-
Hi GBKevin,
Wow - I find your question extremely interesting. Common wisdom has it that Google understands that '&' and 'and' are equivalents in Local, but that it's a wise idea to stick to one version or the other in your citation building. Your client's scenario appears to indicate that Google is differentiating between the ampersand and the '&', and that is fascinating. So, basically, it appears that Google is only considering the business as being onebox/knowledge graph-worthy if you are searching for the exact name version that you've provided in your citations, website, etc. (Rosenberg & Dalgren). I must tell you that this is the first instance I have a ever encountered of this issue and don't have ready advice to give because of that.
It would be interesting to test whether editing all citations would reverse the situation - in other words, that the client would get a onebox/knowledge graph display for the 'and' version and lose it for the ampersand version. That could be the outcome, but I can't be sure. If Google is being that sensitive about an ampersand, some questions that come to my mind relate to whether the change to 'and' would require re-verification of the Google+ Local listing (name changes often do) and whether the client would temporarily lose rankings or reviews if you made these changes. Again, I'm not sure about this, because I've just not seen it come up before.
I've done some searching in the Google and Your Business Forum to see if I can find any reports of scenarios like yours and am coming up empty-handed. I'm going to ask around a bit in the Local SEO community to see if anyone I know has encountered a similar issue. Sorry not to have clear advice on this, but there's always something new to learn.
Finally, it's perfectly fine to use designations like LLC, PC, etc., if these are part of your legal business name. Google is cool with this. What they don't like is if a business name as too many capital letters in it (i.e. BEST PLUMBER).
If I do get a response from any of my colleagues, I'll return to this thread. If not, I'd recommend you consider posting about this in the Google and Your Business Forum to see if you get any nibbles.
Got a burning SEO question?
Subscribe to Moz Pro to gain full access to Q&A, answer questions, and ask your own.
Browse Questions
Explore more categories
-
Moz Tools
Chat with the community about the Moz tools.
-
SEO Tactics
Discuss the SEO process with fellow marketers
-
Community
Discuss industry events, jobs, and news!
-
Digital Marketing
Chat about tactics outside of SEO
-
Research & Trends
Dive into research and trends in the search industry.
-
Support
Connect on product support and feature requests.
Related Questions
-
A 2014 perspective on using Awards/Badges for backlinks?
Hi all, Just wanted to get a modern-day perspective on this tactic as a method of obtaining back links. We've recently (legitimately) polled our customer base both on social media and through our email database (40,000+ people) to rank a bunch of different locations / attractions and put together Top 10 lists based on the results. I was intending to put together "awards" badges and provide them to the operators who won along with a back link from the badge to the main article page with the finalists. I thought I'd ask here though to see what public opinion is on this as a link building tactic in 2014 as all the resources I could find were a couple of years old. Bear in mind we aren't paying them anything at all, but it is still an obvious attempt to both give them their recognition as well as add to our link profile. Do you think in this day and age that this kind of action would invoke any Google penalties? And if not, is there any indication why they wouldn't pass as much juice as regular text links? Thanks for any and all feedback.
Branding | | ExperienceOz1 -
Branding Association for SEO, and Google's understanding of a "brand Name"
Hey guys. so I currently run my own business here in Queens NY, for Web Design and online marketing, specifically SEO, SMM, SEM, and some inbound marketing that ties to SMM and SEO. When starting I was in a different business, and had kept my old business name. I plan on re-branding myself January 1st with a brand new name, the name i'm seriously considering is "Media Marketing USA". I was able to purchase MediaMarketingUSA.com. I feel this name is good and bad at the same time, and here are some of the reasons. The pro: Easy to remember, sounds big, and describes my business well. The con: Sounds generic, and I worry it will be hard to brand. I used the mentioning tool provided by Moz and see that nearly everyday 500-1,000 people are naturally mentioning Media Marketing USA, one of my biggest questions is will this give me a competitive advantage in SEO, or will it hurt me in SEO as Google may not see this or understand its a brand name? Do you personally think this is a good name to re-brand myself and use as my main website? The Website itself will be used as a corporate website, a method of inbound and outbound marketing through content creation, Social Media, and of course SEO, targeting specific locations, and specialty services and industries in the NYC area. Please share your thoughts with me, THANKS!!!
Branding | | tonyr71 -
Can we use SEOMOZ to get insights/data on the members of a twitter list?
It would be so useful if we could get insights into the members of a twitter list in the same way we can get statistics on the people we search through the "search twitter bio" options (following/followers/RTs/Social Authority/etc). This is possible through the twitter api but it limits to 20 list member which is useless. Anyone know of a solution? Thanks!
Branding | | VGRRI0 -
Has anyone had problems with thier google maps page after the google plus intergration?
About a month ago Google contacted one of my clients to inform them that the Google places is discontinued and their Google plus page will be the new Google places. They gave my client an $100 adwards credit for adwords express so their location will still show up for their business name during the change from Google places to Google plus.. When you type in the business in a local area or on a GPS now.. It is no where to be found. You have to know the address to get directions or go there on a mobile devices. The Google plus page for all of these locations is not currently showing up either. I have contacted Google and Once again something has been released without implementing it correctly. No one seems to know what is going on... after talking to three people. Does anybody know what is going on ???? This is a huge deal when being a local company.
Branding | | JohnParker27920 -
Social Profile for my business, where do I start
Hi, Today our business has no social presence so we are starting from the ground up. We have implemented the Google +1 button across the site, but nothing more. The social sites I'm considering targeting are: Linked In Twitter Facebook Google +1 I already have personal accounts used personal sharing on Linked In, FB and +1. I'm unsure whether I need to create a new facebook account for each of those and then create the business profile on each one or whether I should use my existing personal account. Further, for Google +1, there was no requirement to create any business page of any kind, all I had to do was take the code and insert it into the website. That confused me as for Facebook and Linked In, I was sure you must have an account up in order to have the social Like or Share button working Given I'm at the very start of this process, it would be great to get others input into how they went about this, and perhaps share any pitfalls they may seem obvious to avoid in hindsight. Thanks.
Branding | | fdep0 -
Anybody use Twibbon to promote a website/cause/event?
I stumbled across Twibbon today - it's a service that basically creates an easy way for you to brand your Twitter/Facebook pictures, and to allow others to promote your cause as well. I'm not sure if I'm late to get on board here or if this is a relatively new thing, but it seems pretty cool. I can definitely see this really working out for promoting philanthropic causes. It would also work really well for events - imagine if every speaker at an SEO conference used Twibbon to brand their Twitter/Facebook? I think it would really help with branding, for both individuals and businesses.
Branding | | AnthonyMangia1 -
301 Redirect Old Established Site to New Business Model Site?
I have a client who has a website which is getting fairly descent traffic in the current industry its in. He is launching a new business model, same industry. New domain, new brand etc. Is it better to keep both entities separate and try growing them both? Or would it be more effective in terms of acquiring ranks and traffic to 301 redirect the old established site to the new site? Transferring all the value from the old and instantly boosting the new model. Not sure if this ads anything to the topic, the new domain is also an exact domain keyword match for a highly searched term.
Branding | | sunbelt0 -
One big site or lots of little sites? Which is better for SEO and my business in general?
I realize there are some aspects of what I'm asking that only I can answer. With that said, I'm looking for some discussion about the pros / cons of each, and what are the most important factors that will push me one way or another. Let's say I have a company that has three products. One big brand, three little brands. Each of the little brands is focused on a particular sub-niche, all of which are in the general health & wellness niche. Either, I could create a large site for the big brand, with subsections for each product, and work hard on turning that domain into a goto site, with lots of articles, etc. The domain name for this one would be a made up word so I can fully control the search results. Or, another strategy would be to create smaller, "sniper" sites for each product, maybe even sites for each major search term that is interested in that product. These sites would have fewer articles. Descriptive, exact match domain names. Which is the best strategy? #1, #2, or a mixture of both? #1 seems legitimate, #2 seems a bit spammy. What are the pros and cons to each? Can anyone speak from experience about both these practices?
Branding | | monetize-2660060