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The url doesn't seem to be working?  I searched your keyword, and with just a quick view the top sites all seem to have a significant edge in page authority scores (Or domain) . Can you give the URL again?

The url doesn't seem to be working?  I searched your keyword, and with just a quick view the top sites all seem to have a significant edge in page authority scores (Or domain) . Can you give the URL again?

We recently had this problem with two sites belonging to new clients.

As it turned out (I think)  because these sites had what appeared to be text link ads on the home pages (2 each) and both had a rather large "links"  page,  GWM  had stopped showing all thier back links. That is a BAD SIGN of things to come!  We fixed it, and the links are back.

So... does your site sell links?  does it look like it might be selling links?  Could be the issue?

Not sure if this will help. We recently brought in two new clients.  Both had text link's to other sites on their home pages.  It would make sense that Google would view them as suspicious, as they also had a robust "links" page. There site rankings where slipping, and when you used the Link:www.yoursitehere.com" command, they didn't show at all. Talk about RED flags!

GWM wasn't showing any back links to either site (A REAL PROBLEM)  and we assumed they where passing no link juice because of it.

Long story short, we removed the spammy looking links on the home page, and change the link page so it had far fewer links, and looked more natural .  Links are back on GWM   and rankings have returned.

My Point...  If Google picked up on these two sites, which trust me, are not all that spammy and are real companies , and were NOT selling text links, I can only guess that the sites you will end up on will have very little value.

Why not do it the other way?  Earning great links back through great content and great P.R.  ?  Use professional SEO process? The days of buying your rankings are fading fast!

Ryan, yes there are a lot of factors.  But ....  going back two page example. Two pages of the same value. One has 3 outbound links, the other has 30.  Clearly in most cases the page with 3 is better.  In other words, if you have this situation 100 times, you might see it proving correct 70 or 80.

I doubt that figuring out several of the SEOmoz metrics is much (if at all) more difficult than the one I am describing, and a Link value would be of huge.

Every metric we see on reports is in fact a guess. PA, DA, Trust, Cblocks, Backlinks.. none can be completely trusted and we all use these tools with that understanding, and the hope that they are at least generally correct.  What would be any different in a link value report that took as much into consideration as possible?

Can you imagine the time savings and efficiency acceleration of Link building if such a tool existed and was even somewhat accurate.

I think SEOmoz attempted this with the old Domain Juice passed metric. But seeing the formula for it, I can understand why they felt it was not very helpful.

Ditto Bevelwise. We see Page Authority as gaining much more rank this year. Link's from pages with low page authority seem to have very little effect.

We understand the PA, DA, trust and all of that.  My question is, is there a process or formula anyone uses that shows an individual links value as to the link juice it passes. The old Domain Juice seemed to be that, but after further investigation (And Rand setting me straight)  I now understand it's not a good metric.

Today, we use PA  divided by the number of external links on that page to get some sense of an individual links actual value to the site or page we link to. I understand this is a very sloppy system, but seems to be the only choice we have?

It's based on this simple thought.  If you get a back link on two different pages, and both are equal in every way,  except one has 3 outbound links and the other has 30, the link from the page with 3 will be significantly stronger as far as passing juice.

So...  anyone using something to determine an individual links value?  I did ask the SEO staff, and they do not current have it.

Page Authority is explained here.

www.seomoz.org/learn-seo/page-authority

It's our number one metric to understand why a client ranks some where on a page. Have lot's of clients who start with an A grade on the Keyword tool, but are not ranked.  It's the Pages "PA"  that has the largest determining factor in ranking. (In general)

If your page is getting an A,  can you tell us the PA  and DA on the page and domain, and what those are for the competition?

Is this a national site , or Local. If local there are several other factors that will apply.

If your page is getting an A,  can you tell us the PA  and DA on the page and domain, and what those are for the competition?

Is this a national site , or Local. If local there are several other factors that will apply.

We have been watching this for a while. In our research we have tried linking to the citation sites, and have had little success. There is no doubt that the principles of places ranking are related to, but not the same as normal organic.

Reviews are very helpful, and next to the normal important areas (profile completeness, address and others) I would put reviews as top priority. Not only on Places, but Yahoo, Insider pages, city search, yelp, Angies, and even customer lobby. I am sure there are more.  Recently Places started displaying reviews from the Places accounts owners web site. Seems if you use reviews or testimonial in the URL  they may pick that up. This may be an attempt on Google's part, to slow down the number of duplicate reviews. (Those with ears , let them hear). <- not sure what I mean, but I have only had one cup of coffee so far.

Look at the simple fact, that you will rarely find a places account on the 2nd or 3rd page of results that have a significant amount of reviews.

We have stopped using the "usually suspects" for citations, as in the last 5 months they seem to have little value. What we do see working is citations on other "local"  sites.  Not directories, but  related local sites. Much harder work, but Google likes it when we work hard for a citation or link... right?

PS-  We are not all that large in SEO, just do local clients , so our research is very limited.

We do a lot of Local seo, and have found that Google is just not showing the citations this year that they did last. We also have researched enough of the citations to see that they are not showing up as links either.  Our thought is Google has stopped indexing many of these pages.

Last year we could count on 8-10 local citations on Places using the normal mix.  Since February of this year, only ONE of those directory listings has shown up as a citation or link.

We now use completely different strategies on citations.  We work on getting on local blogs, as well as other small business sites in the city.  The other clear trend we see, is if you want to have a well ranked site in Places the direct causation (after having a places account of course)  is PA of the sites home page.  We looked at ten local categories and the rankings on Google (Places and first page). Simple,  in the VAST majority of cases the rankings fall right in line with PA ranking.

The days of Local rankings being a significantly different system than organic SEO seem to be gone.

EGOL,

I know how Google values a link.  Leave 1 billion dollars in unmarked bills in the public parks waste basket at 1:00  A.M.  and I will send the exact method to you...

Or...  just pay me $129.00  a month and we will guarantee you the FIRST PAGE of Google.

I see a lot of answers to questions in here that I would consider pretty umm, well, not all that great, not that I am one to judge, but when I ask a question I am looking for answers from experienced professionals.

How do you decide which answers to take more seriously?  I check the persons profile and follow it all the way out the their site and blogs (if listed).  Sometimes I see sites that have a SEmoz of 10. How can you give advice when your site has no Ranking?

I know there are going to be exceptions, and that this isn't the one and only indicator, but how do you decide how much confidence you can put in an answer here?

Very common Tactic.  I would say use your resources building great content on your main site, and you will see a better return.  The question you are asking really comes down to a point of view, and then math.

A bunch of sites, with little or no juice, will help a little.  A bunch of links back from Blogs. Sites, and social media will pay off big time if you can create the interesting content. Interesting is:

"something that concerns, involves, draws the attention of, or arouses the curiosity of a person"

So I would ask this question.  What is it you can do with the current web site that will create Interest.

Great answer Ryan!  I would only add a small comment, that being that their is some evidence that no follow links can (and in the case of twitter and other social media) may pass Juice. We are running an experiment on a new site using 90% no follow to see the results.

Link wheels in the past have been very effective.  We see them all the time in the link profiles of small SEO firms (or I should say local SEO firms).  Some have built much of their rankings on them.

I am not going to preach here,  we all have strayed no and then into the less "white hat" areas of SEO ( Except us, if Google is reading this ;))

Marcus makes a valid point.  If you are going to be an SEO you have to decide what type of SEO you are going to be. Link wheels are considered cheap and amateur tactics, that have a short self life.  In our research it appears it's like a drug addiction. Once you start, you can not stop or the rankings start to fall.  So you get stuck in the endless cycle of building cheap links to cheap web sites, and then one day you will wake up and Google and Bing will have completely discounted all your work.

Why not look for and express great ideas.  Great content is the starting point. A calculator, a contest, a tips, a cartoon, any thing that will make the clients site more attractive to be bookmarked.

I feel your pain. We have all been there. But do at least consider the more experienced voices on here.

Good discussions from everyone, thank you!  I had several motives in asking. One was of course to get all of your views, and they did confirm my intrinsic thought process, and the second was the test the assumption that only individuals who where pretty good at all this would answer (this proved to be true) and therefore giving me some insight into feeling more confident when I read your responses on here, and the last was to get more points, because I really like free stuff*.

• the later statement is a a partial truth.

Mine too!

What a great idea! You may start a new trend here Dejan.  Maybe you can add a "buy it now"  amount  and make it easy on us.