How much keyword density for Google?

[gheh2013]

I have several pages on one site which have gone down during the past few months. They keyword density on those pages, which is not unnatural, pleased Google for many years. it still pleases Bing. But Google now seems very picky.

Based upon your experience, what is the ideal % keyword density for 2 and 3 word phrases, and should they be left out of alt tags even when proper to put them there?

While Google dominates, we do not wish to alienate BIng/Yahoo.

It is a huge mystery, and experimentation with more non-keyword-related text has so far not born any fruit.

Thank you,

GH

[micromano]

I realize this is an old thread, but I came across it when looking for an answer to the question, "What is the ideal keyword density for SEO?" After reading several high-ranking pages on the subject (most of which did not or could not provide an answer), I came up with what I believe to be an answer: The ideal keyword density for a given web page is either: (1) one keyword less than what would cause a visitor of the page to form an opinion that the page is not a credible source of information for that keyword, or (2) one keyword less than what would cause Google to form an opinion that the page is not a credible source of information for that keyword.

Now, I'll leave it to someone better at math to calculate what exactly that number is.

[hortonseo]

It's amazing that everyone here has answers, but no data. If you're going to give an answer, back it up. User-readable? Yes. Documented by Google. No copy? Links only? Works for some sites like CNN, ToysRUs, Walmart that get picked up just because they're huge (observation). But for the majority of the little guys, content plays a role and it would be great to know if the data supports keyword density as still being applicable to G. Tools still measure it (SEOQuake). In natural language, it seems to make sense that a certain percentage of words, on average, are repeated. Google has made it clear that they are trying to master how language is actually used in the real world and providing results based on how humans communicate, not computers. Thus, more people focus, less computer focus. YET, we all know that computers still play a huge role in how SERPs choose winners. We just have to find the balance, right?

[gheh2013]

Thank you for the link, which is useful, but I was surprised to find many very code-heavy sites (14%) ranking at the top as well, even in the era of the "thin page" penalty. The factors and changes in algorithms used are simply overwhelming, so I guess my answer simply lies in making the best site possible and giving up on SEO considerations almost entirely.

[expertiseinc]

I still consider keyword density as a litmus test for how I expect spiders to consider my pages.  Even more important, but touching on the same concepts as keyword density, is the text-to-code ratio.

http://www.seochat.com/seo-tools/code-to-text-ratio/

And this is something I do spend time optimizing for.  With all of the analytical scripts, forms, nestled navigation bars, etc, on a standard site, it's easy to become code-heavy and be penalized for it.

[TheeDigital]

I agree with Tom.  When it comes to keyword density, ask yourself if it comes off natural, then ask a friend to read the copy.  Ask him or her, does it come off natural and would they accept this for copy on a website.

[gheh2013]

Thank you.

You are likely right that there are other off-page issues Google may be taking into account to penalize our white hat site, though they are a mystery to me, as our link profile is very strong according to SEOMOZ, especially compared to much larger competitors. We even have pages which once ranked in the top 5, and which SEOMOZ claims have a very high authority, which have disappeared completely from the Google index (for all intents and purposes, except for precise search of the title).

I suppose that limiting links to other content on the page which use the keywords may be the next step, and largely ignoring the words I am trying to convey. Unlearning everything that worked for 10 years in SEO and still works with Bing (which is providing me personally with better answers to general questions, by the way).

[gheh2013]

Thank you. I agree, but have certainly seen sites (other my own) which go right to the top of the SERPS due to keyword density, as they have little content and no backlinks, so it does still seem to me to be a matter of some concern. If you don't mention keywords, how is an algorithm supposed to know what the page is about or is emphasizing on a site with thousands of pages?

Thank you again for your response.

[TomRayner]

I don't think you can put a general % on keyword density.  So long as it reads well and doesn't appeared to be stuffed, it should be fine.  Mention it as many times as you can without it appearing forced.  There's no doubt that having a keyword appear more times on the page will help Google deduce what the page is about, but similarly anything that would compromise a user experience or attempts to over-optimise for the algorithm can easily be penalised. Saying what number this is though is highly dependent on context, so you can't put a broad figure on an "optimal level"

If you haven't changed the density on the page, I don't believe that your density level would have caused a fall in your rankings (unless it was overdone, as said before). The strength this signal has on your rankings would be small at best, so there's very likely another reason for the fall.  I'd start looking at other on-page factors and especially what sort of links you might have earned recently (or indeed lost).

[eyepaq]

There is no longer such thing as "keyword density". This should not be part of any SEO startegy.

Calculating this is a waste of time.

There are pages that rank without having the keyword on the page - seomoz has a good blog post on the subject by Rand I think.

It dose help to have the keyword on url and in the title tag and in h1 and at least once in the actual content but there is no magic formula.

I hate the statement "what is good for the user" as it is over used ny Google but in this case it dose make sense - it can be used once or 10 times or 100 times in the page as long as it make sense for the user and if you read the text is natural and no forced sentences or words. Synonyms of the word or alternative of the phrase are also a very  good choice and google can associate those very well.

Personally I never take this in consideration to any of the projects - I used to (back in 2004-2005) when it was important but now based on industry opinions, google's statements and personal tests there is no magic formula and no help if you work on keyword density.

My 2 cents. Hope it helps.