Getting A Sub Domain To Out-Rank The Main Domain

[jasarrow]

Hi,

We have a prospective client who currently have a sub domain setup for each language, they all have the same content as the main domain. The problem is that the main domain is written in English (but not UK English), and they want the UK sub domain to outrank it (it's the other way round at the moment). Effectively, there are duplicate content issues here and as a result it looks like Google have chosen to keep the main domain (as it has more authority) and lower the UK sub results in its rankings.

Is there a feature in webmaster tools where you can target subdomains to a location (I know you can do this with a main domain). Additionally, any other tips for the above would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

[activitysuper]

Well at least doing it with WMT the way I and Rob explained you got the piece of mind your doing it the right way, the way other SEO's would do it.

I don't think implementing the above will be like flicking a switch on the SERP's but only time will tell.

Don't forget to setup separate xml sitemaps for each subdomain and put them into the relevant subdomains WMT's account.

I'm guessing if your doing subdomains the company has physical address in the locations, if so maybe worth applying for Google places for each one.

[RobertFisher]

I am going to go out on a limb and give you a suggestion from a guy who is likely older than you with a tad of experience.

Do Not Lead With The Answer

This is a prospective client. If you give the answer as a sales tool you devalue the answer. let them know that you have an answer, you understand that answer and what work it will take to alleviate the issue. Remember you will have to monitor the change over time and BE SURE to take a baseline before you change anything, if you get the client.  
You may state that the issue revolves around how the sites were originally set up and that now there will need to be multiple fixes most likely. One fix will be in establishing the way in which Google views each sub domain and that you would do that change first for each sub domain. Then, as you watch pages rank up or down, you will making coding changes on a per url (page) basis in the event important pages are not ranking (hreflang). You will drill down to the lower hanging fruit as you progress, assuming these sites have a few pages. (you don't want to over promise if you have to do a long with hreflang).

Think on what I say here and you will likely get the sale and make more from it.

All the best,

Robert

[RobertFisher]

Different languages would not constitute duplicate content.

The issue that confuses all of us is the language versus location issue for same language and it is very important that we keep that straight in our heads. Obviously, it was enough of an issue that Google went to work to develop the hreflang link element.

Without knowing if they are using a gTLD, which, server location(s), etc. it is a bit more difficult but not impossible. With simply setting the sub domains with geo target preference, most will be solved IMO.

I actually liked what you had given him as well as you laid out the setup and gave a couple of good tips.

Thanks for mozzing around with us!

Robert

[jasarrow]

Wow - thanks Robert!

It looks like I'm getting there with some sort of strategy to talk them through now. Will set eveything up properly in WMT (targeting by country not language, as you say), then if that doesn't have the desired effect, will look at using the hreflang element. Lots of work to be doing but hopefully it will get them the results they're after.

[activitysuper]

Hi Rob,

I have a question for you.

If he re-did the English content into say 10 different languages so it's actually the exact same content just in a different language would this count as duplicate content? I would assume not and it would be good to go but with Google's translate technology the possibility to see duplicate content across languages could exist?

Actually while typing this it does sound far fetched and I don't no why they would flag it.

Thoughts?

[RobertFisher]

Jasarrow

I am going to try and hit this from a broad brush vs. a dissertation on internationalization. Also, I understand the limitations you face with the all too important "prospective client" issue. So, (Are they using a gTLD? = .com, .net., .euro, .asia?)

First: Your toolkit for internationalization is GWMT. The knowledge here is good and on the whole understandable.

Next, you can use geotargeting in GWMT for sub domains. Same place.

there is a blog for internationalization questions: Google WMT Intl. 

Your English language problem is first in that if the main domain is US English and they want a sub domain from the UK to outrank it even though it is in US English: I am assuming by subdomains they are using uk.theirsite.com? de.theirsite.com?

If you set the geotargeting for the uk.theirsite.com to UK, leave the (assumption is .com) .com as US, but set the geotargeting as US as I am also assuming the server is UK based. If server is US set location anyway given that you are trying to "tell" Google what is what. (server location is an inference of country)

In the query you say subdomain for language as opposed to sub domain for country and even GWMT says this can be confusing. If they are using sub domains, I would suggest for country not language - especially for those who are users of the sites. Beyond the English problem, you have the French: Canada, France, etc.

Lastly, with your UK problem I would go one step at a time. I abhor multiple corrections to single problems as they leave you with unanswered questions. The easiest first fix is the geo targeting in GWMT. Then if you are still having issues, you may need to consider utilizing rel="alternate" hreflang link element. (From GWMT -Many websites serve users from around the world, with content that's translated, or targeted to users in a certain region. The rel="alternate" hreflang="x"_ annotations help Google serve the correct language or regional URL to searchers._)

So, you have some work to do, but I  hope this helps provide some direction, Good Luck with Prospective Client,

Robert

[jasarrow]

Great advice - thanks. I never thought of setting up a WMT account for each sub domain.

I've also just read up on the hreflang element (http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/new-markup-for-multilingual-content.html). Have you ever used this before? If so, did it have any effect?

Thanks again for your help!

[activitysuper]

Yeah, just look at each sub domain as almost a separate domain when it comes to WMT. 'Add new website' for each subdomain. So if you got 5 subdomains your have 5 website accounts in WMT.

When your in one of them you can set the location you would like to target.

For the tips, I would use different accounts for social media (yeah I know, a lot of work):

Here is an example from Groupon, check the url.

http://www.facebook.com/groupon.uk

http://www.facebook.com/groupon

Everything you do make it location specific, build links from extensions which are the same as the country you are trying to target, get tweets, likes, plus1's from users who's settings are set to the location you are after, literally treat each subdomain as a separate website and it's link profile is aimed at it's target location.