Has anyone attended or hired anyone from Full Sail University? Or schools offering Internet Marketing or SEO

[RobertFisher]

We are actively looking for a couple of positions. A qualified SEM (for PPC, etc) pro that has experience with Google but also others including BING and Yahoo. And a good SEO person who gets it is about delivering a result and not blowing sunshine up someone's skirt or pant leg. 
That said I got a resume the other day from a guy and he stated he had a Master's Certificate in Internet Marketing from Full Sail University. I looked them up and they offer a Bachelors Degree and a Masters Degree in Internet Marketing. They also offer a certificate in Internet marketing they call a Master's certificate. So, I set a time for him to call me as I was mildly skeptical. 
When I started asking about the certificate (His LinkedIn page had Masters Degree in IM) he said he had taken the certificate and I did not pursue the LinkedIn. I asked how long he was in school for the certificate and he stated 6 months (curriculum is 4 months and is fairly t h i n.
I asked what he had done and he had completed an Internship with a Texas company and helped a construction firm move to page one. When I asked how he started telling me about inserting keywords in the meta tag field in the CMS..... He did not know what a title tag was, knew nothing of content, H1, H2, Local Optimization and then wanted to tell me how when you put their Domain name in google they are number two on page One.  So you get it, I believe.

I am just really frustrated with the whole "certification" etc. thing and believe we do need it. Market Motive is as close to good as I can see, but I would love to hear from you. (Note on MM- I do not like the if you pay monthly you get Provider or whatever but it you shell out $3500 you are a Master. Just doesn't feel right to me. And, I did speak with someone a while back with a masters from them and again, I scratched my head).

Would just like to hear of your experience and if anyone has hired from these schools with success.

[Jinx14678]

Not to knock anyone who went there....

My sister went there for their recording engineer program - and as a evaluation based off of school only, not necessarily the program in question:

They seem to hire alot of their own students to be teachers...

You work with the latest and greatest equipment, but in the real world the latest and greatest is usually few an far between

It is a self paced program, which has advantages and disadvantages - Meaning almost anyone can do a "Brain Dump" but retaining that knowledge and being able to practically apply it is what is important (but this is a prob at most American schools these days)

I also am jaded by the whole certificate thing, cause I come from IS where there is a certification for everything, but the certifications amount to jack squat   in practical knowledge

Shane

[RobertFisher]

Dana

You make a great point around the various facets of SEO and how long term some may be affected. However, I think there will be a need for SEO going forward just as there was after keyword meta tags and seeing how many times you could get the keyword in faded. I remember about ten years ago a gentleman came and presented to our company about eZines and how they were going to revolutionize the web, etc. Obviously, they did have an effect just as the PRWebs/newsline, etc. (web trash I affectionately call it now) have an effect today. But, will they still be here tomorrow? Don't think so, IMO.

There seems to be a continuum that goes one side to the next. This is driven not in a small part by those who think of the search "system" as something to beat. So, black hat says use a link wheel, hide links in periods and colons, etc. But, my belief is that people who search will ultimately determine what is Optimum or not. 5 years ago I was looking for a water pump for a small fountain for my home in Houston. I searched on Fountain pumps etc. + Houston and could not find anyone with a fountain pump in Houston. tons in Ohio, etc. I have now watched as the web has become more and more localized. That was driven not by the engines, but by their customers.

Remember that with Panda or Penguin, many perceive it as Google spanking a bad child and I see that as not being thought through. Google understands that when I search for water pump Houston and someone or two or 5 have gamed the system in order to show up high on page one, but none are in Houston. That is not a good result for GOOGLE. There customer does not like it because they were clear about what they wanted. So, the technical SEO will be there as it is very important. But, good content that is not stolen, spun, or rehashed by a "PR" vomit machine is what people want and what they will come back to over and over. If I know I can search on any engine and consitently get what I was looking for, that is where I am going.

Remember, this is a change but one that will allow the early adopters and true believers to gain a lot of real estate if they are diligent.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful responses,

Robert

[danatanseo]

Thanks Robert. Ah, I understood now. You are an agency vs. a company looking to hire someone to do SEO in-house. I should have paid more attention.   Yes, I would think if you are training your folks and pay is competitive, holding on to someone shouldn't be that hard. Companies like mine though, that have taken the leap and hired someone in-house always run the risk of spending a lot to train someone up and if that person does become a SEO rockstar, that individual most likely will move on and the company will have to start again with someone else.

Understood on the English major bit. I think the fact that my current SEO project has had so much technical SEO involved, that the writing part falls to someone else who is directed by me. Still, with Google continuing  Penguin updates, is all that SEO-optimized content really getting anyone better rankings? If so, then writing is still important SEO - but for how much longer? A good writer doesn't need to know a lick of SEO to be a good writer.  If SEO-optimized copy isn't helping to improve rankings, build links, etc. , then the technical aspects of SEO will become more important. By technical SEO i mean page speed, proper coding, crawlability, index ability, site architecture, CRO, accessibility, Web design and usability.

Whew! That was amouthful! All that being said...

The MS program in Internet Marketing at Full Sail was just that, Internet Marketing. We only spent 1 month out of the entire year on SEO, so for those students who came into the program knowing very little, they probably left knowing very little. SEO has always been where my interests and passions lay, so I studied that and Analytics whether we were doing coursework on it or not.

[BradsDeals]

Agree 100%. I've interviewed several candidates lately who have completed an SEO program at a local, well respected, not-for-profit school and it became pretty clear as I spoke to them that I've got a lot of work to do to fix the misinformation.

On the other hand, I was really excited about a candidate who had a degree in Political Science, though he ultimately took a different job. I've been very pleased with the work I've seen from a co-worker with a degree in journalism. I find that a liberal arts education in general, but especially when the degree requires a combination of writing skill and critical thinking, sets people up pretty well for SEO work. I'm always surprised by how much SEO these candidates already know without realizing it - it's just that no one has ever organized everything for them or given it a name. Once they have that light bulb moment, they pick it up very quickly.

Personally, I've got a BA in Rhetoric and an MBA in International Business, and I find these to be invaluable for what I do. I know how to write, I understand how people use language, and b-school gave me a whole new perspective on what KPIs really matter and how my role fits into our business model.

[RobertFisher]

Dana,

Really great to see a response from someone who went through and graduated. And with a DMA, I am impressed.

I completely disagree that writing skills are the mostimportant for SEOs. This is probably an oversimplification of where EGOL was going and my followup. I am hiring an SEO now who is not an English major (Journalism Summa Cum Laude) and got her SEO training on the job where she was hired as a blogger/writer to work with the marketing firm they were using.

What EGOL said, was: "great content can defeat SEO over time and crappy KW research is a waste of good SEO.." So, the content is king. Not English majors are kings.

There are gaps in the SEO/SEM she has, but she does write well and understand what SEO is and the basics and more. She will be a superstar in a year most likely. Yes, technical SEO is very important for her to learn.

My issue with the Full Sail candidate was that he really did not know anything about SEO and (he may not have gone there at all) when I asked about how long the curriculum was he said 6 months. (Maybe including his internship.) I do have copywriters who knkow more about SEO in two months than he knew.

I am curious as to why you think someone who was taught SEO would leave? I don't see it that way at all, but I also do as much as I can to insure they are constantly learning and to insure their pay is ahead of others at other firms. Plus, they get to work with me!

Last, I can't imagine outsourcing my SEO/SEM. That's why I built my firm, to do those things

Thanks a lot, hope to see you here a lot.

Best

[danatanseo]

I received my MS degree in Internet Marketing from Full Sail University in July, 2010. My background was in classical music (DMA from University of Illinois, 1993). I can speak from personal experience that the program, the professors and my colleagues in the Internet Marketing degree program were superb. I completely disagree that writing skills are the most important for SEOs. Good SEOs are people who have the unique ability to be both right and left-brained. I am currently the in-house SEO Strategist at CCI Solutions in Olympia, WA. Prior to that I was the in-house SEO for Kingdom, Inc. in Mansfield,PA. They promoted me after I received my degree, but their competitor, CCI, hired me away from them.  Don't get me wrong, I write a lot of content too, but hiring a English major to do your SEO would be a big mistake (IMHO). The company I am doing SEO for now is facing a myriad of technical SEO issues. They have loads and loads of great content, but still they thought their content was a problem. Sure, it needed some improvement, content always does. But they have such a long laundry list of technical SEO problems (i.e. meta refresh on the homepage, duplicate content from old domains, malformed URLs, improperly managed 301-redirects),  that all of this is still completely undermining any content production they do. You aren't going to find a writer capable of managing a project to fix those issues because it's foreign to them. You need a real SEO. Someone who can walk that fine line between science and art. Everyone's a little different. Everyone in the Full Sail program had different skill sets. Some were CEOs, some were Web developers, some were Web designers...Just keep in mind that Internet Marketing and SEO are really two different things. There are people who are good at one but not the other. There are people who are good at both. Ask a lot of questions specific to your business and SEO challenges and hold out for the right person. Ask who they follow in the SEO community. Ask them what tools they use. Ask them about their previous projects.

Keep this in mind. If you do hire an English major and train them in SEO, and they get really good at it., you will have just trained them for somebody else, because they will most likely leave. Hire a skilled SEO with experience. If you can't afford one, consider outsourcing to a company with great credentials like SEER Interactive, Distilled, SEOFlow, Blue Glass, AimClear...etc. There really are lots of good ones.

Hope this helps!

Dana

[RobertFisher]

Thanks Stephen,

Actually, that is well put.

I think it kind of hangs with the English majors. Enough questioning to make them open minded in SEO and, if you can read that stuff with any level of comprehension, you can probably write!

Well put.

[firstconversion]

We have a couple of guys with MA in philosophy, seems a pretty good fit for SEO

We also get a lot of Business grads applying for jobs, and Ive yet to find anyone who was worthwhile. They seem to get taught such useless rubbish and come in without any idea of what a real marketing job is like

I personally have a MA Social  Media, which is utterly useless, and a BSC Biology which I find incredibly useful

I don't think education level is much of an indicator

S

[RobertFisher]

EGOL - This is truly great. We have 9 copywriters of which 8 are either in journalism, English, or political science or have graduated, and done well in school. They come in and take to this and the fact that they are really learning like crazy.

I still wish there was an organization that actually had some clout with SEO that did a test or cert. for same.

We do use Craig's list, but our copywriters also go after others in advertising org on campus, etc. They make great recruiters! Your suggestion for ad is excellent and I will try immediately.

As usual, you are spot on with your answer. Thanks,

[EGOL]

These days you can still hire cum laude English graduates who will be really excited about earning an SEO salary after they acquire a little experience.

They are superb writers, they will excel at KW research, they are great communicators and they can quickly and easily learn the rules of the code THE WAY YOU WANT IT DONE (not how some hack has taught them).

With a little training you can give them just about any job in the house and they will be great at writing content.

Keep in mind that great content can defeat SEO over time and crappy KW research is a waste of good SEO..

Toss an ad up to Craigslist saying that you need a great WordSmith to become an expert on writing and tending websites and watch what comes in.

[wrttnwrd]

Generally, I've found that folks coming from internet marketing programs aren't that well prepared. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be good employees! It just means the schools do a lousy job of prepping them.

When I interview them, I use the same kinds of questions I ask anyone: Basic logic stuff, HTML, communications abilities, etc.

But definitely never accept college-level training in 'internet marketing' as a sign someone's better-prepped. And if they're trying to tell you their certificate (whatever that is) is a sign of how competent they are, that's just a sign that they're still pretty naive. Not the end of the world, but they're still beginners.