Best way to start a fresh site from a penalized one
-
Dear all,
I was dealing with a penalized domain (Penguin, Panda), hundred of spamy links (Disavoved with no success), tiny content resolved in part and so on ....
I think the best way is to start a new fresh domain but we want to use some of the well written content from the old (penalized site).
To do this task I will mark as NOINDEX the source (penalized) page and move this content to the new fresh domain.
Question: do you think this is a non-dangerous aprouch or do you know other strategy?
I'll appreciate your point of view
Thank you
-
Hi Claudio,
To the question of "is it dangerous to start with similar content to the old site", I would say that it's very hard to tell. Some sites in some niches all have very similar content (think or real estate aggregator sites in the same cities - it's not as if they have access to different properties on the same market - they generally list the same houses for sale and rent at any one time). However, Google is ver adept at processing text to understand it if has been recycled or "spun" from other content it has seen before. If the original content came from a severely penalised website, re-using it in this manner would definitely not be risk-free.
You would probably also want to take the old site offline completely as opposed to simply noindexing its pages if you were to do this.
Google understands very "similar" content due to content spinning having been such a popular way to create content in previous years. If you can re-work your existing content to be of a fairly different length (shorter or longer), take a different paragraph structure, and be placed on the new site that is very dissimilar to the old one in terms of structure, this may work out well. I cannot say that this is risk free however, for all the reasons Casey has brought up already.
-
Dear Casey,
The new domain is on a different C-class, the whois info is different and event locked as private, the WMT and GAnalitycs will be on a different account, the design will be different and even I have planed upload a few products (pages) to start, and also it will be blocked by robots.
But my question is "is dangerous start with similar content to the old site", (some pages has a great content well written)
At this time I was working for two years with the old site and the traffic is recovery too slow, so our time has finished this is why we want to start a new domain using some of the old pages (previously marked as NOINDEX on the old site
Thank you for your time and knowledge
-
Claudio, I've always been inclined to believe the following:
"If Google CAN know something about your site, assume they DO know something about your site."
So in your case, yes, there is always going to be a danger that Google will see you as the owner of both sites (the penalized domain and the new one) and eventually move any penalties from one site to the other. Now, you can certainly minimize this possibility by doing the following:
- Keeping the sites out of the same GW Tools account.
- Making sure the new domain has different WHOIS information.
- Keeping the sites off of the same C-Class Server
- Minimizing similarities between the two sites as much as possible (including NO 301 redirects and design options).
Regardless, even doing the above may not be enough. I will say though that although Negative SEO does exist, I find it "questionable" that it is the main reason you are having problems. Google advises specifically that it's enough to just "drop those kind of links into a disavow." Most likely though, you have MUCH larger issues impacting the domain, especially if it's been 2+ years.
Definitely consider a professional audit. I really want you to consider existing all other methods before trying this strategy.
-
Dear Mates,
To clarify, I was working two years trying to resolve it, for example the toxic links comes from spam blogs created by competitors, take a look at this samples there are 200 blogs containing exactly this page and our site is linked there:
My plan is to create a fresh new site NO-301 no redirections, but I want to use some of the well performing contents (more than 500 words, well written), using these steps:
1. Make on the old site the content as NOINDEX.
2. Wait 15 days.
3. upload this content to the new site.
Do you think it could be dangerous?
Thank you for your responses
-
Hi Claudio,
I would echo the guys above in saying that it sounds like you could do more to revoke the penalty on the original site. If you begin anew, I would definitely not 301 the old domain (not that it sounds like you were going to), but I'd also invest in completely new content, rather than duplicating the old content. Google's ability to track duplicate content is amazingly good, so even a noindex on the old content could still have G draw a connection between content it penalised in the past and the new site.
Moosa is absolutely correct that it is better (and unfortunately much harder) to remove bad links than it is to just disavow them. Google's spam team often appreciate genuine effort to remove links - disavowal appears to work best if you have been unsuccessful in your link removal and can prove that you got in touch with as many sites as possible (screenshots of emails unanswered or answered unfavourably, for instance).
The other very good thing about removing links is that they can never hurt you again in the future if Google one day decides to change the way it views previous disavowals... which we certainly can't count on it not doing.
-
Casey is right Panda and Penguin are different penalties and they should be resolved differently! Penguin has to do with links so if there is a penguin penalty then you must have some toxic link within your link profile.
My idea here is to collect all the links (GWT, Moz, Ahrefs, and Majestic SEO) and then either manually check each link or use Link Detox or Link Risk to kill all the links that are unhealthy. If the penalty is penguin you will receive a Google message to either remove more links (with some examples of the link) or it will give you a positive message that will say “The penalty has now been revoked”
Note: It is better to remove as many bad links as you can before disavow them.
In case of Panda, the problem is within your site and content so may be the content you think is high quality isn’t really high quality in the eye of Google and in this case you should considerer redoing your content.
All in all I believe the decision of going for a new domain is too early at this stage, my advice is to look in to the penalty details and deal with it.
Hope this helps!
-
To be blunt, moving from one penalized domain to another to escape a penalty is most likely a complete waste of time. It's been a known fact for years that penalties follow 301 redirects. But it was recently clarified by Google that "moving" your penalized site (and that includes content) to another domain to escape a penalty is also a foolish choice. Google now reserves the right to move a penalty to any new domain (something we've suspected for awhile, but now can confirm).
In your case, I'd strongly look at continuing to salvage the domain. If you weren't aware of the above, then I'm hesitant to believe that you've also done EVERYTHING you can to unwind your algorithmic penalty. Further, you reference both Penguin/Panda above and yet BOTH have clear different approaches to how they should be resolved. Maybe your "high-quality content" isn't really as high-quality as you think? Maybe you haven't disavowed all the toxic links/domains affecting your site? Have you tried to seek out a professional Google penalty site audit? I'm not convinced you've done all you can just based on your question.
No judgments, but personally, no, I don't believe this is a "non-dangerous approach."
Got a burning SEO question?
Subscribe to Moz Pro to gain full access to Q&A, answer questions, and ask your own.
Browse Questions
Explore more categories
-
Moz Tools
Chat with the community about the Moz tools.
-
SEO Tactics
Discuss the SEO process with fellow marketers
-
Community
Discuss industry events, jobs, and news!
-
Digital Marketing
Chat about tactics outside of SEO
-
Research & Trends
Dive into research and trends in the search industry.
-
Support
Connect on product support and feature requests.
Related Questions
-
Is there an issue with my site?
Been mostly hanging around top of page two for the last couple of years for “Liverpool Wedding photographer” although got myself on page 1 for “Liverpool photographer” I have split the title of the page to target these two keywords. I took the Liverpool photographer off the title to see if it was being detrimental to the “Liverpool wedding photographer” I didn’t see no increase in ranking so put it back as I get a bit of commercial work from it. Since last year I have got onto page 1 at least three times around position 5-6. Within a week or two I start sliding down again and end up back at top of page two. I could understand this slow push out if my competitors were busy SEO wise but from what I have seen they are not. There is a guy using the keywords in URL and calls himself “Liverpool wedding photographer” last time I checked he literally had no links but is in the first 5 positions. I have I think a better link profile than every one else. Although I am on and off with Facebook and Instagram, (more off) so that probably isn’t helping. Although I have a colleague in the video side of things and he doesn’t use social media at all and it hasn’t harmed him. A few years ago I was burned quite badly by a total charlatan. He sunk my home page to page 4. He talked the talk about creating landing pages but his methods were shoddy to say the least. I can’t believe I was taken in by him, although I was only with him for 2 months. He was still using spammy link techniques to generate lots of toxic links for me! I disavowed all of his links and put the keywords back on the home page and was back to my usual top of page 2 position within a week. Since then I have disavowed all directory links and anything not wedding related. I have an article which ranks 1st or second for “Nikon CLS”. I have also another article of 2000 words or so on another reasonable placed photography website. A few links from other vendors or people I have taken photographs for. I have about 10 featured weddings with a link on 4 good weddings blogs. I don’t think a massive amount of blog comments although I have stopped doing this. If I look at most of the competitors these are their main links, with directories as well! Last winter I put a quite substantial article about documentary wedding photography on my home page. I flew to number 2, although I photographed The World Transformed (the alternative labour conference in Liverpool). I got a lot of clicks to a gallery page (few thousand off social media} so I don’t know if that coincided with it. Same thing – watching the website go down a few positions every day until within just over a week or two I was about 4<sup>th</sup> on page 2! Its like my website is on a spring which can push into page 1 but rebounds back to top of page 2. I am staring to worry that my site has been marked as a bad character in some way because I get what seems to be rough treatment from google compared to my peers. I have written I think 4 or 5 (1500 word) articles the last couple of months talking about lenses and wedding photography related topics and Google pushed me back to page 1, peaking At position 5. I was there for a few weeks and then the slide happened again. Bit demoralised at the moment, what to do? Any help or pointers would be most appreciated. Best wishes. David.
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | WallerD0 -
Mobile First Index: What Could Happen To Sites w Large Desktop but Small Mobile Sites?
I have a question about how Mobile First could affect websites with separate (and smaller) mobile vs desktop sites. Referencing this SE Roundtable article (seorountable dot com /google-mobile-first-index-22953.html), "If you have less content on your mobile version than on your desktop version - Google will probably see the less content mobile version. Google said they are indexing the mobile version first." But Google/ Gary Illyes are also on the record stating the switch to mobile-first should be minimally disruptive. Does "Mobile First" mean that they'll consider desktop URLs "second", or will they actually just completely discount the desktop site in lieu of the mobile one? In other words: will content on your desktop site that does not appear in mobile count in desktop searches? I can't find clear answer anywhere (see also: /jlh-marketing dot com/mobile-first-unanswered-questions/). Obviously the writing is on the wall (and has been for years) that responsive is the way to go moving forward - but just looking for any other viewpoints/feedback here since it can be really expensive for some people to upgrade. I'm basically torn between "okay we gotta upgrade to responsive now" and "well, this may not be as critical as it seems". Sigh... Thanks in advance for any feedback and thoughts. LOL - I selected "there may not be a right answer to this question" when submitting this to the Moz community. 🙂
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | mirabile0 -
Whats the best way to set up a directory listing website
Hello all, I am building a website that lists homeschool events and field trips across various states (locker-time.com) and I have a few questions on setting it up correctly. Both the events and field trips are searchable by distance. For clarification, events are associated with a specific date and time and field trips are not. I currently have a link that says homeschool events and you enter your zip to find things close by. Is it better to create a separate page for each state I am targeting instead? So the link would be homeschool events and then a sub-link that says homeschool events in GA and the GA page brings up all the events in GA, still searchable by zip. Or does it matter? I was thinking if its a separate page, I could put keyword rich copy on top, but then clicking on the menu and choosing the appropriate sub-menu is an additional step for users on the site and as the number of states increase, that sub-menu could get pretty big. The search results pages lists the post title of any events or field trips found and the links go to a page on my website with more information, such as the location, details on the event / field trip and a link to their website. I am wondering for SEO purposes, is this the right way to do it? Or I could set up the results page to show an excerpt and some listing info and then link directly to their website. Does it matter? I was thinking a page on my own website since then I could add images (but that might end up sucking up all my hosting space). As I am adding these listings to my website, I simply copied/pasted the details on the event. Now that I'm thinking about it, original content is best, so should I stop doing that and rewrite the description in my own words? Since the events are date specific events and when they pass, they are no longer on the site, does it matter as much for the events? The field trips do not have dates associated with them, so I can probably work on creating my own descriptions for those. Just not sure if I should bother with events that are more short term. Thanks in advance for ANY advice or suggestions. I'm so looking forward to getting this all set up correctly! I find working on this SEO stuff such fun! Jeanette
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | fatcreat0 -
Why does old "Free" site ranks better than new "Optimized" site?
My client has a "free" site he set-up years ago - www.montclairbariatricsurgery.com (We'll call this the old site) that consistently outranks his current "optimized" (new) website - http://www.njbariatricsurgery.com/ The client doesn't want to get rid of his old site, which is now a competitor, because it ranks so much better. But he's invested so much in the new site with no results. A bit of background: We recently discovered the content on the new site was a direct copy of content on the old site. We had all copy on new site rewritten. This was back in April. The domain of the new site was changed on July 8th from www.Bariatrx.com to what you see now - www.njbariatricsurgery.com. Any insight you can provide would be greatly appreciated!!!
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | WhatUpHud0 -
Working to Start an Shopping Idea Site - Which Totally Based On Scraping product from Ecom. How Quickly I should Add products and categories in this new domain.
How Quickly I should Add products and categories in this new domain. We are going to start its promotional by google adwords and facebook. I worrying about 10000's of product pages. kindly guide me.
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | innovatebizz0 -
Best way to link 150 websites together
Fellow mozzers, Today I got an interesting question from an entrepreneur who has plans to start about 100-200 webshops on a variety of subjects. His question was how he should like them together. He was scared that if he would just make a page on every website like: www.domain.com/our-webshops/ that would list all of the webshops he would get penalised because it is a link farm. I wasn't sure 100% sure which advise to give him so i told him i needed to do some research on the subject to make sure that i'm right. I had a couple of suggestions myself. 1. Split the amount of pages by 3 and divide them into three columns. Column A links to B, B links to C and C links to A. I realize this is far from ideal but it was one of the thoughts which came up. 2. Divide all the webshops into different categories. For example: Webshops aimed at different holidays, webshops aimed at mobile devices etcetera. This way you will link the relevant webshops together instead of all of them. Still not perfect. 3. Create a page on a separate website (such as a company website) where the /our-webshops/ page exists. This way you only have to place a link back from the webshops to this page. I've seen lots of webshops using this technique and i can see why they choose to do so. Still not ideal in my opinion. That's basicly my first thoughts on the subject. I would appreciate any feedback on the methods described above or even better, a completely different strategy in handling this. For some reason i keep thinking that i'm missing the most obvious and best method. 🙂
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | WesleySmits0 -
Site rankings down
Our site is over 10 years old and has consistently ranked highly in google.co.uk for over 100 key phrases. Until the middle of April, we were 7th for 'nuts and bolts' and 5th for 'bolts and nuts' - we have been around these positions for 5-6 years easily now. Our rankings dropped mid-April, but now (presumably as a result of Penguin 2.0), we've seen larger decreases across the board. We are now 5th page on 'nuts and bolts', and second page on 'bolts and nuts'. Can anyone please shed any light on this? Although we'd fallen some before Penguin 2.0, we've fallen quite a bit further since. So I'm wondering if it's that. We do still rank well on our more specialised terms though - 'imperial bolts', 'bsw bolts', 'bsf bolts', we're still top 5. We've lost out with the more generic terms. In the past we did a bit of (relevant) blog commenting and obtained some business directory links, before realising the gain was tiny if at all. Are those likely to be the issue? I'm guessing so. It's hard to know which to get rid of though! Now, I use social media sparingly, just Facebook, Twitter and G+. The only linkbuilding I do now is by sending polite emails to people who run classic car clubs that would use our bolts, stuff like that. I've had a decent response from that, and a few have become customers directly. Here's our link profile if anyone would be kind enough as to have a look: http://www.opensiteexplorer.org/links?site=www.thomassmithfasteners.com Also, SEOMOZ says we have too many links on our homepage (107) - the dropdown navigation is the culprit here. Should I simply get rid of the dropdown and take users to the categories? Any advice here would be appreciated before I make changes! If anyone wants to take a look at the site, the URL is in the link profile above - I'm terrified of posting links anywhere now! Thanks for your time, and I'd be very grateful for any advice. Best Regards, Stephen
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | stephenshone1 -
Panda Recovery - What is the best way to shrink your index and make Google aware?
We have been hit significantly with Panda and assume that our large index with some pages holding thin/duplicate content being the reason. We have reduced our index size by 95% and have done significant content development on the remaining 5% pages. For the old, removed pages, we have installed 410 responses (Page does not exist any longer) and made sure that they are removed from the sitempa submitted to Google; however after over a month we still see Google spider returning to the same pages and the webmaster tools shows no indicator that Google is shrinking our index size. Are there more effective and automated ways to make Google aware of a smaller index size in hope of Panda recovery? Potentially using the robots.txt file, GWT URL removal tool etc? Thanks /sp80
Intermediate & Advanced SEO | | sp800