Still Keyword Stuffing? With NO tekst?

[MartinePeters]

When i do this tool on this doll.....

http://www.reallovesexdolls.com/sex-doll-aka-love-doll-jadyn-3ft3-100-cm/

It is saying that i stuffed the keyword sex doll 18 times (?!), but i wrote NO TEKST!

Now i am maybe a stupid woman, but i seriously dont get this.

_Editor's note: _You can probably tell from the URL, but site is NSFW.

[LinkWheelOldSchool]

I totally agree with you, you do need unique content to rank and Martine's page (coz this discussion took off a bit) had a lot, a lot of unique content. So that's why i was considering that having keywords appearing a 15+ times on her page would not do any harm. Keyword stuffing can affect your rankings, of course, but only if you have thin content and/or if you do it to influence rankings (as an example, a client of mine had his titles on all pages like this: RV Insurance | Buy Rv Insurance | Best Rv Insurance | Rv Insurance Online | Rv Insurance Quotes - and the last paragraph  on each page was 3-4 lines of RV Insurance related keyword spam - and guess what, there was no penalty and the site still ranks well for it's keywords).

[MartinePeters]

Thanks for your reply. I will continue to work on my website and make it look better so i can get more traffic.

[MonicaOConnor]

That is just not true. I run an ecommerce site and I can tell you that if I don't have unique content on my pages they don't rank because of all of the HTML containing too many of the same terms. I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you are saying, but your overall message is incorrect. Keyword density and keyword stuffing can affect your keyword rankings. You have to have natural, unique content and if your keyword density is off it appears unnatural whether your sentences are grammatically correct or not.

[LinkWheelOldSchool]

The thing about density is that it's calculated based on the entire document/page and not just one phrase. And yes you're right, nothing in your sentences is out of context, but it is still keyword stuffing because the density is way out of proportion (but hey, Matt Cutts said there's no right or wrong density, so...)

And yea, it might be keyword stuffing, but you don't see ecommerce shops get penalized because of it, so i guess it's nothing wrong with it.

[LinkWheelOldSchool]

Most of these resources are from 2010-2011, a lot has changed since then.

But even then , MC said that there's no right or wrong density, the only thing that matters is if your "keywords are present in your copy in a natural way". So if they keywords are present in an un-natural way, that would be keyword spamming.

Now let's take a look at an ecommerce shop, where you have the categories on a side menu and they all contain the keywords in them. Is that natural or un-natural?

[MonicaOConnor]

• in order to be stuffing it must be out of context - if you have a list of categories or related products that contain the keyword, that's not out of context, it's natural.

This is only part of the equation. Yes, context is important. So, seeing you write that leads me to believe you have an idea of what keyword "stuffing" is when you use terms out of context. The other part of stuffing is keyword "Density". Meaning not using the same keyword out of proportion to the text on the page, mainly because it is unnatural. No one would say,** "I sell blue widgets to blue widget lovers all across the states. I am a blue widget expert because I have sold millions of blue widgets. No one knows blue widgets better than I do because no one has sold more blue widgets than I have". **

Nothing in my sentences is out of context, but it is still keyword stuffing because the density is way out of proportion. It is a natural way of speaking or talking. It is grammatically correct, and sounds like I am just trying to prove I am the blue widget queen. However, that is not the case. It is rationally too many keywords for the text I have written.

[LinkWheelOldSchool]

Jonathan, i don't have source where you can read this, i'm talking from experience and using my common sense:

keyword stuffing by google

• in order to be stuffing it must be out of context - if you have a list of categories or related products that contain the keyword, that's not out of context, it's natural.

• also, the same keyword must be repeated over and over, in a compact form, just like in the google example "We sell custom cigar humidors. Our custom cigar humidors are handmade. If you’re thinking of buying a custom cigar humidor, please contact our custom cigar humidor specialists at custom.cigar.humidors@example.com." - this might be the case of some ecommerce and affiliate sites that have thing content, but when most of your occurrence are not coming from the main content (but are coming from the related content, menus, even html), that's not keyword stuffing.

About the keyword density, i have 3 examples, which in terms of density are exactly the same:

1. 1000 words of content and the keyword appears 20 times per throughout the content

2. 1000 words of content and keywords appear 20 times in the first 50 words on the page (density is still the same).

3. 1000 words of content and the keywords appear 10 times in the title and 10 times in the last 30 words (and just for the sake of it, the main content of the article has nothing do with the keywords).

Keyword density is exactly the same for all, but one of them is not keyword stuffing. If it was keyword stuffing in all of the above examples, you wouldn't see ranking any big retailer in the top 10.

So the key to understanding keyword stuffing is if the keywords appear natural, in context, or not. And natural for a blog / content website may be different from natural for an online shop, considering they have a different structure and purpose by default.

[MonicaOConnor]

I encourage you to read the following articles. I know that there is no one SEO recipe but I don't believe that you have a great understanding of what keyword stuffing/density is really about and how it has evolved. Panda doesn't separate Ecommerce sites from Content only sites.

http://moz.com/community/q/what-constitutes-keyword-stuffing

http://moz.com/blog/google-refuses-to-penalize-me-for-keyword-stuffing

http://moz.com/beginners-guide-to-seo/myths-and-misconceptions-about-search-engines

http://moz.com/blog/keyword-targeting-density-and-cannibalization-whiteboard-friday

And my favorite: https://youtu.be/Rk4qgQdp2UA

[TheWebMastercom]

I would be interested in reading more about this if you have a source to back up that definition of keyword stuffing.

Interesting info.  Thanks.

[MartinePeters]

Thanks a lot for all of the help guys. I currently look a the list of on page grader and am making sure that i have an A ranking for the keyword that I want to rank for.

[LinkWheelOldSchool]

For a regular page (article / deep content) that's true, i agree with that. But for an ecommerce store selling products, things are different. Main content here is thinner extra content predominates : categories that may contain the keyword, related products that may contain the keyword, reviews / ratings that may contain the keyword. If you look at any amazon product page for example, you'll see that it's keyword stuffed according to moz (15 or more keyword instances). But there's nothing wrong with that, amazon still ranks high.

In my opinion, ever since co-occurrence and co-citation came out, keyword density (and keyword stuffing) are no longer that important.

[MonicaOConnor]

Technically, it is. Keyword stuffing is determined by the amount of text around a keyword. If you have 300 words of content, and your keyword is on the page 20, that is definitely keyword stuffing. You should only mention your keyword once or twice per 100 words. Otherwise, it really looks unnatural.

[LinkWheelOldSchool]

Martine, nothing to worry if you have the same keywords 18 times on a page, that's not keyword stuffing. If you had it 18 times in the title only, that would be a problem. Just think about it on a regular page about sex dolls, the word "sex doll" will appear 3-10 times in the content. It would also appear in the menu, breadcrumbs, categories, product variations, titles, etc. So 18 times on the whole page is not a problem.

[MartinePeters]

Without SEO Moz and without you guys i never would make any money! This is time consuming but much more fun than paying 1000's of dollars to some company to do it all for you.

At first i was panicking cause the site looks really complex and some words i still dont know what they mean. But as long as Google doesnt give me a penalty i am ok. I will gradually build my doll business and Moz is helping me.

Today i found out that it is not handy to have the same product in to categories with exactly the same description. It's like going to school again! And you guys have so much content that i don't know where to start reading, but it's ok. One article at the time.

Thanks a million!

Martine

[MonicaOConnor]

Jonathan is correct, when you have no content on your page, the HTML is the only thing that bots see. Meaning, if you have something repetitive in the coding, that is what Google sees, and that could be what is causing your keyword stuffing errors. The best way to fix that is to get more content on the page.

[MartinePeters]

Otherwise I have to do it the other way around. Put the word back in description and change the name of the categories

[MartinePeters]

Thanks for your answer. I have removed some categories even and changed the name of a page.

I removed the description totally.

And still i have 18 keywords 'sex doll'. I don't get it.

[TheWebMastercom]

The on page grader counts the whole page, including things like breadcrumbs, sidebar widgets etc.

When I first started with Moz, I actually removed a fair amount of exact match keywords from sidebar and footer widgets upon using the grader tool.  The results from the improvements in on-page SEO have been good as a result.