Local SEO Issue or Penguin? Or both?

[Marcus_Miller]

Hey folks

I have a fairly complicated SEO issue we have been looking at for a few years now. There are two parts to this problem so would be interested to get the input of the community here and any experienced in Penguin and Local SEO issues.

I am going to have to change the names to protect the innocent a bit here as some of the issue relates to a competitor and a shared address.

History

My client originally worked for company A which we will call Events R us.

He then set up on his own at a new address and lets call his company Fantastic Events.

EventsRus never had a good website or SEO

Fantastic Events set up a great website and really focused on adding tons of relevant content for all the myriad event options available and subsequently did really well.

This is a few years back and they were also doing some article marketing on sites like ezinearticles.com to build links (1). As time went on they did get a bit carried away with these low quality links and were buying $5 spun content articles and other low quality links. They ranked really well for a few key terms.

There was a suspected local SEO issue as fantastic events used the same office as their fathers business called fantastic finance and the citations / phone number issues etc all had to be cleared up (2).

Fantastic Events and Events R Us remained friends and over time Fantastic Events moved to the same farm address as Events R Us so they could offer a wider range of services based on the farm (and ran by fantastic events) and to some extent run away from the address confusion with the same office and very similar name to the other fantastic finance business.

Events R Us wanted some of the Fantastic Events success and built a new website and largely copied the website of Fantastic Events - at times even lifting entire pages of content but certainly mirroring the structure of the site. Fantastic Events tussled with them for a few years over this and over time they updated the content but the structure and services and address all pretty much mirrored what was offered on the Fantastic Events site. (3)

Two companies - same address (it's a farm so whilst there are different barns I believe Google can only get as far as the farm gate so same address to all intents and purposes. Same services give or take. Events R Us was the older company overall by several years and was at the farm address many years longer than Fantastic Events (4).

Fantastic Events starts running a blog and adding regular, useful event orientated content. The first true team building blog out there as far as we could tell and traffic tripled over a six month period.

Penguin hits and Fantastic Events loses a lot of traction - this gets worse with Penguin 2.0. Both the homepage and the evening events page lose visibility and traction. The owner gives up on the blog to a large degree.

Subsequent clean up happens and is rigorous - all bad links are pretty much removed and the remaining elements are disavowed. (90% of it is actually gone by now). Penguin 3.0 comes and no recovery at all. Nothing. If anything it gets worse and the once strong blog is now losing traction.

Events R Us starts to do really well in search for exactly the same terms that Fantastic Events used to do well for. In particular one page ranks for exactly the same keywords and in exactly the same position (#1) as what was believed to be the primary traffic driver on the Fantastic Events site. It is almost like they exchanged positions and Events R Us went from nowhere to a strong footing with some national and local keywords and Fantastic Events fell from grace.

A new website is built. All content is refreshed and bought up to date. Some light investment back in the blog. Some light link building is done around digital PR and infographics. Some initial movement in the right direction but overall this did not move the dial.

Certain pages on the site that used to rank are nowhere - looks very much like a page level / keyword level penguin penalty. These same pages rank great, often first on the competitor site (an exchange of positions to some extent).

Advice from myself and other esteemed consultants was to clean up, build some good links and wait for Penguin 4.0 to remove that eventuality. Also that the address issue could be causing some local SEO issue where Google believes the two businesses are one and has somehow merged the two with some local SEO filter or some such (same business with multiple websites at same address).

Penguin 4.0 comes along and no improvements. Events R us sit pretty.

Feeling is that the local issue must play a part here now that Penguin should be eliminated due to the extensive link clean up etc and there must now be some action to resolve this address / local issue.

Issues

1. low quality links - but cleaned up 100% now.
2. same business name and address as fathers business initially
3. older business copied the structure and content of newer business
4. moved to same address as older more established business with very similar content
5. older business now seems to have taken all the exact keywords and positions the newer business used to occupy
6. Penguin 4.0 and no resolution.
7. Local SEO issue seemingly remains

Summary

So we are left in a difficult position. The business does not want to move. But if there is some filtering or merging going on here then how can we get around this? The client is likely collateral damage to an algorithmic component designed to stop single businesses having multiple websites. I know there are reports of this happening but I have never seen such a thing for an innocent business like this but the nature of the address (two separate barns on a gated farm) and the history and similarities between the businesses makes this difficult.

Things are somewhat desperate though - a move has to be made now. Even if that is a physical one. The client has considered a virtual address to take that variable out the picture but I have advised caution. I am even cautious about a change in physical address. Google has a long memory. If such a move was made at considerable expense would it help or would the other business retain

Is the best option a new start? New brand, address, website, services etc - cut all ties with the historic Fantastic Events brand and by association the Events R Us brand. This is not a recommendation I can quickly or easily make so would be really interested to hear the feedback on anyone who has come across such a multi faceted and complex issue before.

This is a tough one. We know what we are doing on the local front. We know what we are doing on the Penguin front. We know how to build links and authority. We are doing this work of the clock to help a long term friend / client get back to where they really deserve to be. The history is not spotty clean but the good work and effort far outway a short spell building dodgy links several years ago now. As an SEO consultant I don't want to advise for the company to rebrand and move offices at considerable expense but whilst I have a theoretical understanding of the issue how can we prove it and be sure this is the best possible advice?

Thanks folks - hope this at least makes for interesting reading. This is something of an edge case. A good business likely caught up in a filter designed to stop abuse.

Cheers
Marcus

[Marcus_Miller]

Hey, I agree. But this client has poured a lot of money down the SEO consulting plughole (not with us) and is just not keen to throw more money at this site that is seemingly just burned. I suggested second opinion a while back and he did try that and the other consultants (good guys that know their stuff) just hit a brick wall as well.

It's a super odd one although we are trying to help and doing some experiments (pro bono) as I am sure there is something to learn and a good case study here somewhere.

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Marcus,

I haven't see a case like you described regarding getting caught in a duplication filter. Like I said, I'm really not an expert on penalties. In your shoes, with a client with this complex of a history, I would hire an expert. It could save the client months of trouble. I'm sure you really know your stuff, but even the best SEOs can overlook things. I'd want a second opinion from someone who looks at penalties and filters all day long to tell me if I'm missing something.

[Marcus_Miller]

Hey Miriam - thanks for the input.

We have tons of experience with penalties - fact is the client has no bad links remaining. Zilch. They also have very little in the way of good links and unfortunately ranked predominantly on dodgy links. They do have a good deal more than the other company though that has seemingly been rewarded with their rankings. I agree it would not hurt to get a second opinion.

It's a tough one - it's all but impossible to diagnose with 100% confidence and it seems the client simply can't rank for the terms they want to. We waited for Penguin 4.0 as the final factor here and still no improvement.

Few quick questions

- have you ever seen anyone caught up in a local duplication filter who should not have been?

• if so have you ever seen anyone recover?

The client has moved address but my gut tells me Google has a long memory so I am unsure again if this will help (and certainly it does not seem to as of yet).

Tough one!

Cheers
Marcus

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Marcus!

Thanks for pinging me on Twitter. I'm not a penalty expert, so I'm going to start my advice with this recommendation: I highly, highly recommend that you hire a penalty expert to consult with you on this prior to advising your client to make a move in any direction. The sheer length of your client's story = a very tangled scenario that is going to need to be investigated from the ground up for resolution. Advice given while not looking at your actual client's properties could actually make the problem worse rather than better (arggghh!) and that is the last thing your client needs right now. So, I highly recommend investing in consulting with an expert. I would recommend you consider seeing if Joy Hawkins has availability. Her coverage of both Penguin and Possum is excellent. She knows her stuff and may be one of the few Local SEOs out there with the patience and skill to get to the root of your client's issues and map out a plan for cleaning them up.

So, with that being said, this is what I see:

1. It's extremely unfortunate that in your client's effort to avoid NAP confusion with their father's business, they ended up sharing a property with a same-industry competitor. That really raises a red flag for me, and when coupled with the fact that the competitor then copied their structure/strategy/content ... yes, it makes perfect sense that Google would be suspicious that this is really one business trying to brand itself as two. It has all the earmarks. Worrisome.

2. This thread at Linda Buquet's Local Search forum might interest you, http://www.localsearchforum.com/local-search/43121-have-you-seen-any-local-rankings-you-feel-were-affected-penguin-4-0-a.html Marie Haynes might also be another good person for you to contact.

Hope this helps!

[Marcus_Miller]

Hey - thanks for taking the time to respond. I am pretty much of the opinion that a new address is the only option here but I am concerned that Google has a long memory about these things. Countless hours have been spent talking to the largely hopeless Google support staff by the customer but as this is an algorithmic thing the issue is going to go away.

[VeroBrain]

Hi Marcus,

Really a very complex case.

Possum is tough! Also you are right, Penguin is playing also.
I think that Google see Event R us as the main website and Fantastic Events as the attempt to deceive, mostly due to age gives authority.

From SEO strictly speaking, nothing else to do. Even more, the owner of the Fantastic Events should not be the owner of the new domain, if he decides to move.
Said that.
Brainstorming, before advice to move and start over. I would try some out of the box thinking/options.

1.- The fist step should be: address might be changed a little, by going to the city council and/or the post office and asking for a differentiation like Beaumont Farm - B.

Sending the new NAP, with the B to all aggregators asap.  After that,  setting up 2 GPS tracking devices as far as possible, with the B for Fantastic Events and using an online service, known due to Google follows it as related company or  business partner.

2.- Sending to Google the official registration of the business and the tax payments, as well (one of my clients was required to do so for register a second address in another country).
It could be used to prove that both business, though they are family related, do not belong to the same person. As far as I know, many automatic algorithms can be lifted manually by Google.

3.- By a very intensive social media campaign from Fantastic Events which includes the name of the proprietor of the company.

As we all know, though Social Media will not help the website itself, Google reads and understands Social Media signals completely. In that case, using companies no related to Google, like Facebook - as far as I know - Twitter and LinkedIn. Perhaps some paid ads also. Google does not like when clients pay somewhere else. It seems they have algorithms to call back and offers help and support...

4.- Also, a very intensive campaign using Google tools, ie. Google+ and reviews which includes strong signals to differentiate Fantastic Events from Event R us.

5.- If data from Uber, Netflix and Tinder Insights might sink a person, what about getting a different cable provider for the Fantastic Events. Using Uber with the new B & the GPS in place.

Due to it seems that all the algorithms are rolling continuously, if some of the measures have results, it will be within a month, after the B in place. As far as I understand, none of the above moves are expensive.

In the event that everything fails, your client will have to move, and sue Google - yes, it can be done, perhaps with the help of an Org or a reputed Law School - so keeping all the records is very advisable. As well as an aggressive campaign by twitter and exposing the issue to the Media, if your client is willing to fight back, of course.

Wish you success.

P.S. On the contrary, if your client changed his address, tell him do not log in Google, Uber, Netflix, etc., in or in the vicinity of his father business.

Those would be very contradictory signals.

Modified November 1st.