Hi,
You can create a Google+ Local listing even if you don't have a website, so my answer would be that you can do same with a blocked website. That being said, you can't expect to rank well without a website in most cases.
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Hi,
You can create a Google+ Local listing even if you don't have a website, so my answer would be that you can do same with a blocked website. That being said, you can't expect to rank well without a website in most cases.
Hi Everworld,
I'm sorry, but this is not making sense to me:
"We want to block the Google Places listings from search, and only show up on the google places listings."
Super, Gordon! So glad my reply was helpful and happy reading!
Hi Webguru,
If you don't have physical locations in these cities, then you do have to be very cautious about taking this approach of building local landing pages. Unless you've got something totally unique to say on each page, then yes, you could actually be lowering the quality of your website by publishing tons of thin/duplicate/near-duplicate pages.
My advice is to go to this article:
http://moz.com/blog/local-landing-pages-guide
You should probably read the whole article, but from what you're describing, it sounds to me like your business will be covered in the section for Business Model IV. Check that out to help you determine whether local landing pages or a different strategy will make the most sense for your customers, the search engines and your business.
Hi Gordon,
Good question! Just like in organic search, there are several hundred factors that go into determining Google's local rankings. No one but a few people at Google actually know what these factors are, but Local SEOs have been able to pin some of the most evident factors down.
Since 2008, David Mihm has held an annual industry survey to determine expert opinion on what the top local ranking factors are. Here is the 2013 edition of this survey:
moz.com/local-search-ranking-factors
If you're new to Local and are struggling to understand the nuances of the factors, this Moz post will give you a visual walk-through of the top 20 local search ranking factors:
http://moz.com/blog/top-20-local-search-ranking-factors-an-illustrated-guide
Recently, Moz has launched some exciting new tools in the localsphere, along with a substantial free education resource. You can really jumpstart your own education if you visit the Moz Local Learning Center at:
For more free educational resources for beginning Local SEOs, check out:
http://moz.com/blog/free-local-seo-education-for-businesses-on-a-shoestring-budget
With this education in hand, you will begin to understand how to promote a local business so that it can compete with its local competitors for inclusion in Google's all-important local pack results.
I sincerely hope these resources will get you off to a super start!
Hi Clair,
Regarding the connection between the various types of Google pages, check out this excellent Mike Blumenthal post:
http://localu.org/blog/merge-google-pages-usually-cant-now/
And here's another one:
http://localu.org/blog/kind-google-plus-page/
Regarding your question about a local listing - a 'local listing' is kind of a vague term. It could be a profile of your business on literally any platform. Google-specific lingo these days is that you can create a Google+ Local page using the Google Places for Business dashboard. There are other types of Google pages, as well, described in the above articles.
Hope this helps!
Hi 1AKAL,
If you have a physical location in those cities, then you would simply be building a location landing page for each office you have. These would be optimized with the complete NAP (name, address, phone) of each location and should feature good, unique content about the specific location.
If you don't have physical locations in these cities, the choice to build out a page for each target city should be predicated on having something unique to say about each location.
Check out: http://moz.com/blog/local-landing-pages-guide
Find the business model in that post that describes your business model, and hopefully the recommendations provided will help you form a good, clean strategy. Please, let me know if you have any questions after reading that post.
Hi Samantha,
Good discussion going on here. I'll add my own thoughts.
For local businesses, a single site approach is generally preferred over a mutl-site approach for the following reasons:
Easier management for the company/webmaster
Reduced risk of duplicate content
All marketing activity goes toward building the authority of the brand and then this flows down to all locations listed on the site, instead of the authority being split up over multiple websites
Possible reduced risk of merges
Google has said a single site is a better approach. See: http://www.seroundtable.com/google-one-site-locations-15454.html
So, in general, if a client came to me and asked if they should start out with a single site or many sites, I'd say a single site 99% of the time. That being said, if the client was in your position with multiple sites already in place, I would help them assess:
How old these sites are
The quality of these sites (great content, unique content or thin/duplicate content)
The overall authority of these sites
The depth of citation building that has been done for these sites
The client's ability to keep multiple sites updated with fresh content on an on-going basis
Any problems the client is having with managing multiple sites.
Answers to these questions would help me understand how big of an asset or a liability the multi-sites are for the business. If they are spammy, low quality, low authority, few citations, it would be a no-brainer to suggest bringing everything together in a single site. But, if they are high quality with lots of citations, I would have to warn the client that some ranking drops could likely occur that would take time to recover from and that a great big citation editing job would be ahead of us to ensure that all references to the old sites had been corrected to reference the new landing pages on the single site.
So, it's going to be different in each case, and hopefully these thoughts will help you assess your own situation. Good luck! This is an important decision you are making.
Hi NetMasons,
Google forms a cluster of data about each local business, drawing information from around the web. If Google is publishing incorrect business data for your company, chances are, they have pulled it from some source that features this incorrect data. For a better understanding of how local business data is shared around the web, check this out:
http://moz.com/learn/local/local-search-data-providers
Your task will be to search for whatever pieces of the data are incorrect, find the source of them and then correct them at the source so that, eventually, Google will update what they have about you to reflect correct information. Citation inconsistency is widely considered to be the third most negative ranking factor. You can read more about this here:
http://moz.com/local-search-ranking-factors
Without actually being able to audit your unique situation, I can't guarantee that this is what is causing your issues, but from your description, I'd bet that you have some citation cleanup work ahead of you. Please, let me know if you have any other questions.
Keri is quite correct about Google not showing web design companies for main local queries, and David is also correct that adding 'in' to these queries will typically bring up these local results. Why Google makes this big distinction between 'in' and not 'in', nobody knows. Presumably, the use of 'in' makes Google more convinced that the user is, indeed, searching for a local solution. Kind of an arbitrary distinction on G's part.
Hi Kirmeliux,
You've provided excellent details on this. Unfortunately, I don't have first-hand experience with the situation you're describing of setting up good Schema for a multi-business, multi-review website with multiple different companies on the same pages.
I am going to ask for additional feedback from the staff on this question, because it's a really good one, and just not something one runs into every day. In the meantime, I sincerely hope members with experience of this will chime in and help!
Hi Kirmeliux,
I need to confess I'm not aces at interpreting code! If you're using this:
http://schema-creator.org/review.php
...you shouldn't be missing anything.
This is a very good tutorial:
Could you please describe what the end result is you're hoping to achieve with what you're doing to put your questions in a clearer context, please? You mention multiple businesses on the same page. Is this a directory site or something like that? What are you hoping to achieve with multiple reviewBody tags...why do you want to remove itemReviewed, etc?
I'm hoping I can provide better insight once I better understand the situation.
Hi Jackson,
Glad to hear that. I do hope others will comment if they're having problems with Yahoo Local verification. Posts like yours make we wonder about bugs.
Hi Jackson,
While I do see people reporting recent verification problems (https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130519195150AAFcNr8) I don't see anything about your specific error message anyplace I would normally look.
If you can't get the phone support to help you, a possible workaround is to ensure that you clients are listed on Yelp as Yelp is now distributing listings and reviews to Yahoo! Local. Here's more on this:
http://searchengineland.com/yahoo-goes-live-yelp-local-reviews-186354
I wonder if Yahoo is having wonky issues as of this new deal with Yelp. I haven't had a chance to test this, but I believe it should work out if the client is listed on Yelp that they will eventually appear on Yahoo! Kind of early days on this.
If anyone else in the community is experiencing the problem Jackson is describing, please chime in!
Always happy to see your questions come in, Ruben!
Hi Ruben,
Hmm, that's a good question. Are there industry-related review sites for his type of business? For example, there are sites that feature reviews of cameras, sites that feature reviews of books. There are product review sites, but I'm a bit stumped as to whether such a platform would exist for selling buildings, as a product. The client probably knows this about his own industry better than I would. If such a thing doesn't exist, are there at least professional/business organization where he can receive a review or rating? Kind of like the BBB? Seems to me like this would take some good research to figure out where the industry-related platforms are.
You're welcome, Beehive, and good luck with the work ahead.
Hi Ruben,
They display in the Knowledge Panel, as well:
But, no, if you are an e-commerce site, these types of local reviews aren't really meant for your business.
Hi Courtney,
Donna has surfaced the very best post for you on this topic. Will your client be at a slight disadvantage if he only wants to build citations on directories that allow one to hide the address? Yes, probably. But, if his privacy concerns are paramount, at least you can get him off to a good start by sticking to the platforms in Phil's article. He may have to rely on other forms of marketing to try to make up the difference, because he will doubtless have competitors who don't share his privacy concerns and are, therefore, able to build a larger number of citations.
You are quite right that you should avoid NAP inconsistency, but what you are describing is not what I believe is generally meant by an inconsistency. Remember, you've got to enter your compete address in the Google Places for Business dashboard; Google has the address on file, they just aren't displaying it. So, if your dashboard says you are Jim's Plumbing at 123 Center Street in Madison Wisconsin, 53532, and they find this identical information + your consistent local phone number every place else your business is listed on the web, it is not, per se, an inconsistency that Google is displaying you simply as Jim's Plumbing, Madison, WI.
An inconsistency would be if you told Google you were at 123 Center Street in the dashboard and then they found references to you at 124 Center Street.
Hope this helps clarify this.
As to whether it puts one at a disadvantage to have their address hidden, in terms of rankings, this is really a matter of speculation, in my opinion. There is some indication that it's preferable to have the address shown ... but if you are in an industry like plumbing in which pretty much every competitor should also be hiding their address, the point should be more or less moot.
Hi Tina,
I'm sorry if my reply was confusing. I want to be sure you receive a good answer. When you mentioned that your address is a mailbox rather than a physical office, this is what prompted my explanation that your address, itself, would be a violation of Google's quality guidelines. Did you take a minute to look at this? If so, you will understand that there is a bigger problem at hand than whether you should be hiding or showing the address. If your address violates the guidelines, your listing is at risk for a takedown. So, this is why both William and I have zoned in on this - we are trying to help you prevent this from happening, as it can completely devastate a business if Google' shuts them out of their local index. Does this make sense?
However, if the plumber has a legitimate address (not a mailbox, P.O. box, or virtual office) then the guideline I pasted in my earlier reply should be the answer to this question. Let me re-paste, in case you missed it before:
_Businesses that operate in a service area should create one listing for the central office or location and designate service areas. If you wish to display your complete business address while setting your service area(s), your business location should be staffed and able to receive customers during its stated hours. Google will determine how best to display your business address based on your inputs as well as inputs f_rom other sources.
So - you should only attempt to have the address show if the office is staffed and accepts walk-in traffic during stated business hours. In any other scenario, the address should be hidden. There is absolutely no penalty associated with hiding your address. It is, in fact, simple compliance with Google's guidelines. Your competitors will be in the same boat, if they are complying with the guidelines. If they are not complying with the guidelines, you can make an attempt to report them to Google.
Does this help, Tina? Please, let me know if this is now clearer.
Google makes mistakes. They can automatically create a listing, and they can create it for an ineligible business model. They goof sometimes, but then they also can come back and catch their own mistakes. So, if Google has made a mistake, unfortunately, it's up to you to try to rectify it. What you want to avoid here is Google becoming prejudiced against your brand because they believe you're a spammer (even if they instigated the process themselves). You need a real address for any of the locations, and honestly, if the pages were auto-generated by Google, I would get the real addresses in place and then call Google to say, "You guys created these mailbox-based pages. My actual address is X", and then see what they say. You can sign into your account and contact Google for a phone call on this page: https://support.google.com/places/#topic=1656871
Click on the 'contact us' button in the upper right corner on that page.
But...before I did this, I'd be sure I had a real address for each physical location and that my website and all of my other citations had been updated to reflect it. Otherwise, if you've got the old data floating around out there, Google will find it and it will reinforce to them that this other, ineligible address exists.
Hi Tina,
If your address is a mailbox, the business is not eligible for inclusion in Google Places for Business. Here are the guidelines referring to this:
Business Location: Use a precise, accurate address to describe your business location.
Do not create a listing or place your pin marker at a location where the business does not physically exist. P.O. Boxes are not considered accurate physical locations.Your business location should be staffed during its stated hours.
So, you should not be using this mailbox in place of an actual physical address. Doing so can lead to Google taking your listing down if they figure out that the address is not real. You can use your home address, but not a mailbox. For service area businesses, you must have a physical address, just like a brick-and-mortar business. Google says:
_Businesses that operate in a service area should create one listing for the central office or location and designate service areas. If you wish to display your complete business address while setting your service area(s), your business location should be staffed and able to receive customers during its stated hours. Google will determine how best to display your business address based on your inputs as well as inputs from other sources. _
Here is a link to the guidelines so that you can read them and bring your business into compliance with them:
https://support.google.com/places/answer/107528?hl=en
Beyond Google, each local business index has its own rules as to what is allowed, but getting down to the basics, you must start with a legitimate street address because this is what Google is going to be looking for, and the lack of one means a lack of eligibility for inclusion. Hope this helps!
Sounds like a plan, Gilson!
So glad to be of help, Jackson!
Hi Gilson,
As a test, I would suggest that you monitor the entire first page of Google for your core keyword over the next week and see if your competitors are also experiencing this fluctuation, or if it is only your website. One way to do this might be to take screenshots each day in the morning and the evening and then you can line them up after a week and compare them to see if the fluctuation is specific to you or if Google is changing up the whole result set.
Cool, Wayne. I hope it does help!
Hi William,
Agree with your summary, but do want to stress that there generally isn't a good enough reason to be running two sites and that Google finding your complete or partial NAP on more than one site is definitely BAD!
Hi Gilson,
I don't have an immediate answer for you, but I do have a quick question. Are you checking all of these results from the same computer all day long, or are these from different computers, mobile devices, etc?
Hi Wayne,
Great question and appreciate your stated intent to make the website as useful as possible for clients. I recommend you start by reading this post (you are business model III): http://moz.com/blog/local-landing-pages-guide
Basically, one approach I am recommending in that post is to optimize your core pages for your brand and service keywords and optimize your office landing pages for your geo keywords. Think about a massive brand like McDonald's. Apparently, you can order a big mac at any of their 30,000 restaurants. Their brand is so strong, they don't have to say, 'We offer a big mac in Boise, a big mac in Boston, a big mac in Detroit." They've got this : http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/full_menu_explorer.html for everybody, right? It wouldn't really be useful for customers if McDonald's had a separate menu page for every fast food joint in every city around the world.
Now, of course, you are not McDonald's and your brand doesn't have quite this authority, I'm assuming. Take a look at REI.com. Look at the way they've got all of their products and then, separately, they've got great landing pages for the cities in which they are physically located, with good, unique content on them. Here's a somewhat smaller brand you can take inspiration from.
Additionally, to continue on with your work of providing useful content to the different communities in which you serve, you might consider having a blog that does speak to the differences of laws, even if they are minor, in the various cities/states. But your overall website structure could look like:
Core pages, optimized for the brand and service keywords
Landing pages, optimized for the brand and geography
I'm not saying this is the only approach to take, but it strikes me as a simple and sensible one.
Hi Ruben,
This is from 2012, but is still highly applicable:
http://blumenthals.com/blog/2012/09/26/infographic-citations-time-to-live/
Thought you might like to take a peek at that.
Hi William,
I think you might like to check out Google's John Mueller's advice on this topic:
http://www.seroundtable.com/google-one-site-locations-15454.html
http://www.seroundtable.com/google-one-site-15963.html
I think this advice about a single site vs. multiple sites is especially important in the local business scenario.
Hopefully, these links will be of help to everyone participating in this good discussion.
Hi Alexander,
Good question and good discussion going on here. I am going to recommend against having two websites, as it sounds like you are operating a local business with a physical location.
What is the purpose of you having two websites? How do you feel this helps your customers?
I believe you are right to be concerned, and here is why:
When Google crawls the web to bring data into the 'cluster' they have about your local business, what they are 'hoping' to find is a clear business name, clear address, local phone number and authoritative website consistently associated with your business. In your case, what Google is finding is that two websites are associated with your business name and address. What are they to trust in this situation? By the same token, which website are your customers meant to trust?
Having multiple websites for a single business often represents risk for:
Citation inconsistencies
Ranking problems
Merged listings
Duplicate listings, including hidden duplicates
Duplicate content
Customer confusion
Bot confusion
I don't know all of the nuances of your unique situation, Alexander, but chances are, if a client came to me with this scenario, I would be recommending that he pick a single authoritative domain and redirect the second domain to it, then work on building his authoritative domain into a powerful asset. Splitting up your authority over multiple domains just seldom makes sense, and there are definite risks involved. Hope this helps.
Hi Nathan,
Can I ask for a bit of pronoun clarification in this:
"I am working with an Insurance agent and he has Google Alerts setup on his company name. He has received two alerts where his name only appears in the URL. If you click the links they bring you to a competitor's Yahoo Local profile page with their name and info. If you look at the URL it has his company's name and city in the URL."
Is 'his' referring to your client's company name and city or the competitor's name and city?
Hi Beehive,
Was the Google+ Local page for city #1 previously pointing to the homepage of the old website, but now pointing to a landing page on the new website for just that one city (among the other 5 new city landing pages)? If so, chances are your old homepage had more clout than the new local landing page, which could possibly explain the loss of organic rankings. After all, you used to have a whole website devoted to just this one city. Now you've got just one page on a larger site devoted to it. Chances are, you've got to build up the authority of these new landing pages, if the scenario I've described is accurate, in order to regain your organic authority.
Hi Dan,
Hopefully your read-through of Google's guidelines will have helped to clear this up, too.
Hi Jim,
Yes, I think this is a serious consideration. But let's see what additional feedback you get.
Hi Jim,
Well, from a Local SEO perspective, I wouldn't advise putting content on a local business website that reflects anything other than your own city or location and service area, due to confusion this could cause on the part of your customers and Google, but lead gen is not an area of expertise for me. I'm going to ask our staff for additional input on your question. It's a good one, for sure!
Thank you for the screen shots, Ruben. At any rate, none of these things should affect NAP consistency, so fortunately, not something to be worried about.
Hi Danny,
Seconding what Christy has explained, and also, think you might want to read this post by Mike Blumenthal:
http://localu.org/blog/merge-google-pages-usually-cant-now/
I believe you may find some ideas in there that will help you with what is going to be a major strategical planning session. Wishing you the best of luck!
Hi Beehive,
This is a good question. So, as I understand it, you originally had a city-specific domain name when you were a single location business. You now have six locations and have moved to a purely branded domain rather than a city-specific one and this site has a unique page for each of your locations (which is good - a best practice - provided the content is unique on each page).
I would not recommend putting all six city names in your homepage title tag or in the title tag of any other page. Once a business expands like yours has, you've got to come up with a different strategy than the one you were using for a single location.
Questions:
Did you 301 redirect the old domain to the new one?
Did you update all of your citations to reflect the new domain name? Realize this will take time to go into effect. This is very important.
Suggestions:
You might like to read this post about local landing pages: http://moz.com/blog/local-landing-pages-guide
Study the part about Business Model III in the above guide, if you've not already read it. It applies to your business model.
A multi-location local business that I think is doing a good job with their Local SEO is REI.com. Check out their location landing pages.
You must now start building the authority for each of the 5 new locations, with content development, citation building, review acquisition, social outreach, etc.
I hope some of these thoughts will be helpful to you.
Hi Jim,
Thank you for the excellent further details. I'm trying to envision your situation. You are an auto-related services company located in South Florida, and presumably, serving customers in that area. However, you mention:
"I had an opportunity to find a mutually beneficial way to provide these services."
Would this be along the lines of lead generation to businesses in other states that provide the same service you do but that are not part of your own company? Or, something totally different?
Hi Jim,
You've done a good job phrasing the details of your question, but this is one of those situations in which it may actually not be possible to advise you well without assessing your unique website/industry/geography/scenario. Businesses that operate in a non-competitive niche or geography often do rank for other cities beyond their city of location, simply because Google doesn't have much data to go on. For example, if you're the only tow truck company servicing a 50 mile radius in rural Kansas, you might very well show up for a variety of mobile and desktop searches for users who aren't located in your city or who are adding these other city names to your query. If, however, you are an attorney in Los Angeles, you are in a completely different situation and the fight for any kind of ranking is a tough one.
Are you familiar with the concept of developing high quality local landing pages for the various cities in which you serve? This is a common, effective strategy for service area businesses of all kinds. You can delve into this topic here:
http://moz.com/blog/local-landing-pages-guide
The development of unique local landing pages for each service city is going to be a more common strategical move than simply altering the title tag of your home page to reflect a bunch of other cities. Not sure if your rankings can be explained by having added 'near me' to a single title tag, but again, it would be easy to give inaccurate advice to you without actually auditing the website and its competition. This might be one of those situations in which you'd be best off hiring a pro and using a non-disclosure agreement if you're concerned about privacy. Alternatively, you can share your website address and further details here to get more on-target feedback from the community.
Hi Little Bigman,
You've asked a good question. Let me refer you to Google's own guidelines regarding this scenario:
Business Location: Use a precise, accurate address to describe your business location.
So, basically, it's fine if you rent a small office, so long as it is staffed and accepts walk-in traffic during your listed business hours. Any other arrangement (with the exception of ATM machines!) is not allowed. Using virtual offices or P.O. boxes is strictly forbidden. Better to use your home address if you're just starting out and then go through the procedures for trying to have the address not displayed, if you have privacy concerns. Fortunately, this is one area in which Google's guidelines, above, are totally clear. Hope it helps to read them. You can access the complete guidelines here: https://support.google.com/places/answer/107528?hl=en
Hi Ruben,
Good discussion going on here! I'm totally fascinated that Bing wants you to add a Zip+4 code. This is the first time I've heard of this in the local sphere. Zip+4 was launched by the USPS in 1983 as a way to help mail carriers identify a certain segment within a neighborhood. They are generally not required for mail delivery anymore, except in the case of post office boxes, which are, of course, not allowable addresses in a local search campaign. Very curious as to why Bing would require this.
At any rate, presumably Google is aware of Zip+4 codes, so I wouldn't actually consider them a candidate for true NAP inconsistency. If some of your listings featured a suite number, and others didn't, then that would be a problem, but I don't see Google having any confusion between a 5 digit zip and a Zip+4. I'm sure they understand this system, so I wouldn't be concerned about it if Bing insists. If you can leave it off and still get your Bing Places listing published, it's fine to do so, too.
Glad you brought this up. Like I've said, it's the first time I've heard of any local platform requiring a +4 code.
Hi Clair,
Let me recommend a few learning resources for you here from Moz as it sounds like you may just be starting on the big task of Local Search Marketing.
Here's an intro to the very basics:
http://moz.com/blog/free-local-seo-education-for-businesses-on-a-shoestring-budget
Here is the big new Moz Local Learning Center, which is literally chock-full of information about this topic:
Here is an illustrated guide to the Top 20 local search ranking factors:
http://moz.com/blog/top-20-local-search-ranking-factors-an-illustrated-guide
And here is the official annual expert survey from 2013, Local Search Ranking Factors, that you can study in great detail:
http://moz.com/local-search-ranking-factors
If you're experiencing a local ranking failure, check out this post:
http://moz.com/blog/troubleshooting-local-ranking-failures
And you will need to understand the concept of building local landing pages. This should help:
http://moz.com/blog/local-landing-pages-guide
Hope these resources will get you off to a terrific start!
Hi Eduardo,
I just wanted to add a note to this good conversation. For local businesses, Google will show IP-based results if they believe the search query has a local intent. So, the factors governing actual local results (for things like restaurants, plumbers, hotels, etc.) are highly influenced by the searcher's location, or by him adding a geographic keyword to his query.
For example, searching from my location in the US, if I search for 'hotels alcapulco' Google is showing me their local carousel of hotel results for this city in Mexico, regardless of the fact that I'm not located in Mexico. Google 'gets' that I want to see hotels in Mexico. But, if I search for 'history of the Mexican flag', Google is showing me general, organic results including things like Wikipedia. So, whether one gets local results or organic ones appears to be based on the language of the searcher's query + Google's concept of the user's intent. Usually, they get this right, but there are some instances in which you may get local results when you didn't really want them. For example, I might search for something really generic like 'shoes', and then Google isn't totally secure about my intent, so they are showing me both local and national results.