Sub-domains and keyword rich domains

[jonny512379]

Hello All

I'm hoping for some opinions as i am confused as to the best action for me to take.

The problem:
Although i say the below, we have never been penalised by Google, not taken part in any bad link building and don't do too bad with SERP. but i worry Google may not like what i do these days.

We have one main site that is broken down into areas/cities (i,e London, Manchester, etc) so the domain looks like www.domain.co.uk/London

But in addition to this we also use Sub-domains to target popular areas (i,e. http://London.domain.co.uk). 
These sub-domains take the content from the main site but of course only display results relevant to London and are optimised for "London + Keyword" 
Any page that gets duplicated (i.e London.domain.co.uk/profile123 and www.domain.co.uk/profile123 are ALMOST the same content) we add a rel="canonical" link that points to the main domain+page on www.
All these sites have a large amount of links back to www.domain.co.uk/?Page so the user can also search in other areas other then London, etc.

This method has worked well for us and is popular with both users and Google search results. All sites/sub-domains are added to GWT under the same account and all sites have unique sitemaps.

I do however worry that Google may class this as link manipulation owing to the amount of links pointing back to the main domain and its pages (this is not the reason we use the sub-domains though)

In addition to the above sub-domains we have a few domain names (5/6) that are keyword rich that we also place the same content on (i,e www.manchester-keyword.co.uk would show only content relevant to Manchester), and again these sites have links back to the main domain, so users can navigate other areas of the UK.

I worry that these additional domains may also not be liked by Google

What do people think?

I have started to reduce/replace some of the additional keyword rich domains with sub-domains from the main site and then 301 the keyword rich domain (i.e. www.manchester-Keyword.co.uk now goes to http://Manchester.domain.co.uk) as i feel sub-domains may not be penalised as much as unique domains are.
There are domains that i dont really want to 301 as they bring in good amounts of traffic and users have bookmarked them, etc.

Any opinions or what you think i should do would be great, as i really worry that if Google stops giving us good results, i'm in real trouble. Although im not sure if what we do is wrong with Google or not.

[jonny512379]

Thanks and yes that's what i have now done with the microsites. So thank you very much for your advice.

The subdomains rank too well for me to bite the bullet on these too, or at least for the moment.

A slightly different and better suited analogy would be
"my main site advertises Hotels and each sub-domain advertises Hotels in London, etc, although my main site also advertises the same Hotels"

FYI my site has an Adult Theme (although not porn) which is why i am not posting URL's.

Thanks again!!
Jon

[RyanKent]

Let's say your main site focus on Ford cars. On the main site you have content related to Mustangs, Pickups, Vans, etc.

If you have a microsite focused on Mustangs, redirect each page from the microsite to the same (or similar) page on the main site. If the page does not exist on the main site, move the content from the microsite to the main site.

[jonny512379]

well i have bitten the bullet and 301'ed all but 2 of my micro sites.
I have kept unique tracking code on the sub-domains they all go to, so i can keep an eye on the traffic.
If it would be of help to others i will repost what happens to the traffic (if anything), so to help others make similar derisions.

I note Ryan said :
_"For your subdomains, as long as you are redirecting users to similar content on your main site, you should be absolutely fine. If the content does not exist on your main site, move the page from the subdomain to the main site. You should not experience any significant traffic loss. The future advantages of consolidation outweigh any minor loss which may occur. " _

My subdomains are all fully functional sites, but for specific areas, so the user only needs to go to the main site in order to search different areas or to contact us, etc.
Any page that gets duplicated (i,e. all profiles are on the main site, and profile for the specific area are duplicated on the subdomains ) is added with rel="canonical" to the page on the main site.
Is this what is meant by "as long as you are redirecting users to similar content on your main site" ?

All content also exists on the main site, so would this mean there is no consolidation to do? or do you think it would be better to 301 all subdomain to the main domain still?

sorry for all the questions and i am very grateful for all the advice

Best Regards
Jon

[jonny512379]

"Serves you right for not sharing with us!"

I will try to email you a glass later....

301 redirects are something im not sure if i know the best way to do them for SEO.
From a technical point all works fine, but im not sure if google will see this as every page 301'ed (although all redirect)

I use this code (or similar) in .htaccess
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^keyword-domain.co.uk$ [OR] RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^www.keyword-domain.co.uk$ RewriteRule (.*)$ http://subdomain.MainSite.co.uk/$1 [R=301,L]

All pages now redirect to the main domain + whatever page they were trying to get to
(i.e www.keyword-domain.co.uk/whateverpage.php redirects to subdomain.MainSite.co.uk/whateverpage.php)

Does anyone know if this is correct or not. Ideally i don't want to have to redirect every page individually as there are 100's of pages and several domains and my .htaccess is large enough as it is.....
Or is there a better "wildcard" way of redirecting all pages?

Best Regards
Jon

[RyanKent]

will teach me to reply after drinking some of 'Scotland's Best'

Serves you right for not sharing with us!

For the doorway sites, 301'ing them to the main site is perfectly fine and desired. Be sure to 301 the entire site if they have more then one page. Also be sure to set the redirect to the appropriate page rather then simply dumping users on your home page.

For your subdomains, as long as you are redirecting users to similar content on your main site, you should be absolutely fine. If the content does not exist on your main site, move the page from the subdomain to the main site. You should not experience any significant traffic loss. The future advantages of consolidation outweigh any minor loss which may occur.

[jonny512379]

Hello Francisco

Thank you for your opinions, they are much appreciated!

Best Regards
Jon

[jonny512379]

Hello Ryan

Thanks for your advice and sorry for calling you Jonny in my previous reply.
(Doh, that's my name....., will teach me to reply after drinking some of 'Scotland's Best').

Although it is not the news i wanted to hear, but i also know it to be true. You are of course right, in that it's only a matter of time before the doorway pages/micro sites come to bite me.
Do you think it would be OK for me to remove these micro sites and 301 them to the main domain (or relevant sub-domains if i am to keep some of the sub-domains)?
Or would it be better just to remove them and make no connection to our main site with them?

I will also try your test of 301 a couple of sub-domains for a month to see if this works too.
My only worry with this is, that the main site does not rank at all for i,e Manchester + Keywords, where as the sub-domains do.
(FYI the sub-domains are not just a few pages each of them can be around 100 pages and all pages within are optimised for Area + Keyword + Page Keyword, etc.)

I do hope i'm one of the good guys (white hat), and have always taken the attitude that SEO is 90% about good content and 10% about optimisation.

Thanks again
Jon

[RyanKent]

if i removed these sub-domains i would loose 40%-50% of my overall traffic which is around 6,000+  a day

If you 301 redirect your subdomain to the main domain properly, you should not lose traffic. You specifically mentioned having subdomain pages that were nearly identical to the pages on the main domain. Redirect each subdomain page to the equivalent page on the main domain.

If you are concerned about traffic loss, try with just one domain first. Wait 30 days so you can fully see the results of the change, then proceed from that point.

Regarding the Doorway pages, they will likely continue to work until you are caught, at which time you will be penalized. You may not even realized your are penalized at first, then when you discover the issue, you may not be clear on whether the issue is the Doorway page, the subdomain issue, or one of the 50 algorithm changes Google makes each month. It is up to you as to what type of site owner you wish to be: white hat or black hat.

[Francisco_Meza]

I agree with Ryan "Your approach is highly likely to be considered as Doorway Pages. "

[jonny512379]

Hello Jonny

yes i think you understand me and thanks for the link to the doorway pages/micro sites.
I have used this method very effectively for many years, but it now look like Google disapprove, so i need to think very carefully about what i do with them.
(i dont think i fit totally in with the doorway description Google give, as their intent is not to funnel users, but they are intended to rank. But i do worry Google will not see it this way, so i hear what you say!)

The problem i have with "eliminating" the sub-domains is that we take a good amount of traffic from these and Google gives them good ranking for their respective keywords and better rankings than the main domain for their respective keywords. (+ the user seems to like them)
If they are not going to cause issues with Google, do you think it will be ok to leave them as is? or do you think this will cause problems in the future and I'm best of changing them now?
(if i removed these sub-domains i would loose 40%-50% of my overall traffic which is around 6,000+  a day, this would hurt my pride and probably my bank balance!)

Thanks for your opinions, they are greatly welcomed!!!

best Regards
Eddy

[RyanKent]

Hi Jonny,

If I am understanding your question correctly, you have two concerns:

1. Linking from your subdomains to your main domain

2. Creating micro sites which link back to your main domain

Regarding linking from your subdomain site to your main domain (i.e. from london.site.co.uk to www.site.co.uk/london) I am not aware of any issue Google may have with that process. Even though technically a subdomain is a different site, Google is clearly aware you own and operate both sites and would not provide external linking value to such links. In other words, I would not expect that type of link to be used to manipulative search rankings.

With the above understood, I would suggest the process is inefficient. It is likely your best course of action would be to eliminate the subdomains and simply use the content on your main site.

Regarding the micro sites, that is a concern. Your approach is highly likely to be considered as Doorway Pages. Based on your description, it seems like a textbook case. http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2721311