SEO Over-optimization

[veed23]

How do you know when your doing too much SEO?

Started back on a couple of sites in which I had done very little to no Seo.

Dont want to get an over-optimization penalty.

[AlanBleiweiss]

I totally agree Matt.  When we take a step back and ask "do these pages look like they're written for a search engine", that allows us to start to see the unnatural patterns that come from that type of approach that's geared toward ranking and not users.

I also put a lot of emphasis on that concept though - unnatural patterns.  Think about the greater web outside the small world of SEO driven sites.  Is it natural for someone who has NO clue about SEO, to repetitively use the same keywords over and over in link anchor text? Absolutely not.

Apply that same rule to every other aspect of the work.

Do NOT however, throw out the principles of Information Retrieval in the process.  Proper page titles, proper (and appropriate use) of keyword specific anchor text, H1s, H2s, breadcrumbs, content and topical organization -these are all CRITICAL to Information Retrieval, going back to the days of library index card systems (adapted to web content).  And that's true even without SEO.

[freestone]

Ah...ok I see that point and did not obviously look at the link profile.

I am afraid I am quite cynical about the penguin update.  While I appreciate that it would be difficult to create an algorithm that does a 100% good job based on what you are seeing the algorithm is quite flawed.

There were a number of things written about EDMs and how they were being punished but perhaps the fact that it is an EDM in this case helped.

[veed23]

ranking high for cowboys tickets

site does not look similar however

The backlink profile = thousands upon thousands of spam links

[veed23]

ranking high for cowboys tickets

site does not look similar however

The backlink profile = thousands upon thousands of spam links

[freestone]

For keyword cowboy tickets ?

For that term that site looks very similar to the other sites on page one?  In fact for my money it is more relevant than all the national sites that are above it.

Hard to judge without knowing more details.

[freestone]

I would say they went up because:

1. some site above you were unjustly removed.  It is happening. Yes this is my opinion.

2.  Some really crappy sites were removed.  What people say penguin was suppose to do and I support if in fact they get it sorted out to the point were the stop doing #1.

[Matt-Williamson]

Well then I would say you are on the right lines - keep up the good work and as I mentioned look how you can build you sites authority online through positive link building efforts - as this will help with your rankings...

[veed23]

Yeah they went up after Penguin - but I did not do any SEO on them in the past.

The content in the past was minimal but had more keyword stuffing.

Now im adding fresh content and removed all the keyword stufffing.

[Matt-Williamson]

Have they seen an increase or decrease in ranking over the past few weeks? From what you have written it sounds like you are going about it in the right way. Just be careful with you link profile as Egol has mentioned, but do work on gaining exposure through means such as social media etc - refer to advice on link building given throughout the SeoMoz blog and on recent Q and A's

[veed23]

Content is all fresh - keywords are integrated into the content minimally

1 site is ranked #12 for main keyword Im targeting

Other sites are ranked -

29

42

49

[Matt-Williamson]

I think you are right Egol - link profiles are under more scrutiny than ever and that is where the biggest risk of gaining a penalty lays.

Spend time and create decent content rather than spammy keyword laden pages - I have seen you push this point many times on here and elsewhere.

I also think people can take a big clue as to the quality of their content from their bounce rates and time on page stats - pages ranking for keywords but having a relatively high bounce rate and a low time on page.

[EGOL]

I think that the biggest risk is doing a heavy attack using keyword anchor text on inbound links.

If you avoid that along with spamming keywords in content and title tags, I think that you will be OK.

[Matt-Williamson]

The best way to think of this is as follows:

Do your pages look like they are written for a visitor or a search engine? Is it clear to any visitor that you are aiming for a certain keyword on your page and that you have created your page for this purpose alone, if so I would look at rewriting things to make them look more natural. I have found that it is fine to optimize all the on-page factors but you need to make sure that you are clearly creating a site that serves quality information but contains the keyword you are targeting rather than just aiming at that keyword. Be good but not perfect.

How I look at it is Google wants to serve the most relevant content for a search term so they are not going to penalize a site that clearly fulfills this with decent relevant content even if the page is well optimized for a keyword. Yes Matt Cutts has said that they are leveling the playing field for overly optimized websites - however I don't see them doing this a the expense of the quality of Google's index so just make sure you are creating a decent information rich site and not a spammy keyword bucket!

Now is a time when those that have worked hard and spent time creating content are being rewarded.

I think this post by Matt Cutts highlights the ever increasing importance of creating decent content in relation to over optimization - http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/another-step-to-reward-high-quality.html

[freestone]

Us the SEOmoz on-page optimization tool to analyze your page.  It will give you tips on what to change and tell you if you are keyword stuffing etc.