To have a location (that is really not a location)

[dshelton]

So here is the problem that I am facing.

The physical location of our business is located in a suburb of a large metro area market (which consists of 3 different cities). Our company services all of the cities located in the metropolitan area market.

I have seen over the past year with Google+ and Google places that Google gives preference to businesses in local search based on their location (specifically to businesses that are located near the center of the city). My suspicions were confirmed by the following:

http://www.davidmihm.com/local-search-ranking-factors.shtml

In the past we went out and played the game where we purchased UPS boxes in our service cities so that we can compete in Google local search local (recommendation from a SEO company that we were using at the time). I did not really want to do that, but at the time it seemed as though we had no other option with how Google was ranking businesses in those markets.

Now Google has caught on to this strategy and has killed those local listings.

It is frustrating that Google assumes that a listing should have higher rank based largely on physical location.

We never had the intent of violating Google policy, but what are we to do? Not trying to play victim but it is true.

My question is how can we rank extremely well in local search for the different cities of the metro area considering that we are physically located in a suburb? Has anyone else successfully overcame this obstacle? Any ideas on how we can rank well in Google+/Google Places in these cities?

Frustrated Business Owner.

[dshelton]

Well, so I have another question then.

Is there any research on how many people click the local listings verses the organic ones (when they show up at the top of local searches)? This is a critical question for us because we are ranking #1 organically but #4 on the page due to local listings being up top.

Looking that the SEOMoz beginners guide to SEO, they claim the following stats:

30% of folks search high volume keywords while the other 70% search long tail. Of those the positions break down as follows:

1-18.2%
2-10.1%
3-7.2%
4-4.8%

Now having said that, take a look at the attached image. Lets say that in our market 10,000 searches are performed by customers actually needing service (I think that it is actually much more than this). For the 30% that equates to 3000 qualified customers that are searching the high volume keyword.

If our close rate is roughly 50%, the difference in revenue between the #1 position and #4 position is $80,400. Of course this entire senario assumes that the local listings count as #1, #2, #3. If not then all of these numbers are gibberish.

We were planning to open another branch at the end of the year in one of the metro cities. 80k is enough to make me want to add that branch now. The real question is does the local listings matter?

Does anyone know stats for clicks with the local listings displayed up top?

Thanks in advance.

D

PS> Miriam, enough of the shellacking. I get it! We are not and were not trying to intentionally abuse the system. In our industry, google positions are highly competitive and of course we want to rank well. Ranking makes the difference as a business owner for my employees and my family. I want to anything and everything that I can to be successful. I am not not however in the business of being dishonest. Nor do I want to be.

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[MiriamEllis]

Hi Donnie,

I'm very sorry to read that an SEO company suggested forbidden tactics. That burns my onion, and, as you can see, you were guided into a situation that has ended in really negative outcomes for your business. So, it's definitely time to turn your back on anything spammy you learned from this SEO firm.

Unfortunately, as your business has already been punished for violations, there is nothing you can really do at this point to get back into Google's good graces apart from vowing to play by the rules from here on out. Memorize the rules and check back from time to time to see if they change:

http://support.google.com/places/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=107528

I truly do understand the frustration - I've spoken with so many business owners who are just on the borders of major areas in which they wish to rank or in which they serve - but the answer is the same for one and all: if you want to benefit from the exposure Google's products offer, you must play by their rules.

How you and I may think Local should work is, unfortunately, totally beside the point. It is Google's conception of how their products should work that matters. You need to try to understand their vision and see how you can fit into their vision, rather than trying to bend that vision to fit your individual business.

So, how Google feels right now (and they are constantly changing their policies) is that a business is most relevant to its city of location. If you're physically located in city A, you can make your best effort to gain high blended/local rankings with a clean listing, citation building, content development, etc., in City A. You cannot reasonably set the same goal for Cities B, C, or D, because you're not physically located there. There are exceptions to this, but they have been rare since the Venice update in early 2011.

Your best strategy for gaining some visibility for these other cities  where you're not located will have to be to make efforts that gain secondary organic visibility...not primary local visibility. So, certainly, have a Places Listing/Google+Local page for your true location and authentically represent your business locale everywhere your data is published on the web, but don't engage in any work that paints a false picture of your business. Your customers do not want this, Google does not want this, and as you have seen, they are cracking down harder and harder on their definition of spam.

It is my understanding that records exist of edits that have been made to accounts...if that is correct, then you've got to see your profile as being marked with a big red flag that any Google editor can see. That being the case, I strongly suggest that you do not try to get back into finding workarounds (such as forbidden virtual offices etc.). If you were my incoming client and had come to me with this issue, I'd be preaching the straight-and-narrow sermon to you and telling you that you've got to forget anything spammy you learned from the old SEO firm and start adhering to all guidelines to the letter. I don't want to go on and on about this, but I do feel real concern about whatever else that bad SEO firm may have taught you about Local.

I have read of cases in which, in order to get more visibility out of the system, businesses with suburb or metropolitan border issues like yours have decided to move their companies to new offices, and while that would certainly be a legitimate thing to do, it's also a rather extreme and expensive reaction. I have also read of cases of people moving offices within a city to get closer to the centroid or business cluster. Again, that seems rather extreme to me, but some people are apparently motivated enough to do so because of the large effect Google's products have on their bottom line.

So, what can you do? I don't know what your business model is (are you a stationary business like an attorney or a go-to-client business like a plumber?) but the tactics are typically the same:

• Put the majority of your effort into gaining high local visibility for your true physical location.

• Build citations to support your physical locale

• Create a content strategy for featuring your work/involvement in other cities with the goal of  achieving some secondary organic visibility for those keywords

• Win/build links to support that organic content

• If you can't get where you want to with either of these 2 efforts, you will have to engage in PPC to get the placement you want.

Something that might be helpful to think of in future: imagine that if instead of investing in the bad SEO company's spamming Google Places/+, you had put that money into content development. Imagine if that content had been so awesome, so shared, so linked to and cited that it was now supporting some visibility for you in those non-location cities. Right now, you would be sitting pretty rather than dealing with a big mess and loss of funds. You can start working on achieving this right now, Donnie, in hopes that it will serve you well in the future. Every local business can make this kind of effort, either in-house, or by hiring experts who are committed to using only allowed practices for the benefit of their clients. I'm rooting for you in turning this bad situation into a really good one in 2013!

[BM7]

Hi Donnie,

I can only commiserate with you as I know what it's like.

I run a service business from a very small peninsula (less than 100 houses) in the harbour of our city. The local name is not even known by many people in our suburb (postcode suburb) let alone in the wider city of 5M+

My business postal address is <1 mile from here and I used the post office address as my address with Google Places as that is a city wide known locality that people can identify with. My service area on Google map was centred there with 20 miles around as the service area. Seemed to me a logical approach.

Google scotched my PO listing really making me change it back to my home address. This change then fell into the infamous Google 'This location is not currently supported' hole and three months later it is still down with their engineering department looking into restoring it without an ETA.

As per David's suggestion, that's how crazy it has become trying to get what seems like the most logical outcome. I easily service the clients <1 Mile from me but that's irrelevant it seems.

Previous 'suggestion' modified after re-reading Places policies as it seems to contravene, but obviously you can still purchase a physical address in each location, and a serviced office / registered business address is a physical address.

Good Luck

[vironc]

Since Google Places has been integrated into Google Plus and is now known as Google+ Local, I guess you are not treating Google Plus and Google Places as two different entities when you say: "Google+/Google Places".  I guess you are aware of that, and, anyway, just wanted to clear that in case you were alluding to them as two separate entities.

BTW, here is an informative post related to your concerns, which will be of help to you:

http://www.seomoz.org/blog/you-asked-i-answered-qa-from-you-probably-think-this-citation-source-is-about-you-dont-you

[EvolveCreative]

Two options:

1. AdWords
2. Buy office space in the cities you want to rank for. Claim Google listing and then use Mihm's advice to optimize them.

Get on Bing's PPC as well. Small pie, but worth your time.

I've had a few clients open up space just to get the listing.

Or, you could go the exact match domain route. If it's your primary domain it's not necessarily spammy.