I'm aware that spamming tools can lead to ruin..what do you use as a backlink strategy.

[joemas99]

But I have had some luck with bookkmaRKING DEMON, and understand the pitfalls of massive submission, but I deal in facts not generalities.

If the goal is to mix your links accross the pages in your site, and mix the DA quality, or pr of the links, and have them contextual as well as comments, directories, etc. who cares how it is done as long as it appears natural

1. Linkvana claims to be a posting service for you. you put text in with your link and it posts to relevant sites, the same as you would do manually. For my context links I see this as a better way than begging people to give me a link, or wasting time kissing butt of reporters (kike i did in the past). Anyway there is good and bad with everything.

I want to know if anyone knows of anyone who used linkvana and what their experiences is ?

And more importantly....

WHAT DOES EVERYONE USE AS A COMPLETE BACK LINK STRATEGY? Thanks

[AntonioCasamassa]

Great content bla bla bla, aren't some of you people sick and tired of giving your silly little text book answers all of the time, yes you do need a site that has great content and yes it is a mandatory requirement if one is to succeed online, but why is it that when someone asks a direct question such as "Is Linkvana good yes or no!" do people side step it and go on a long spat about how they perform link building.

Most of the people in this community say they know a lot about SEO and go around as Goody two Shoes preaching the same lines over and over again! What we need to realise is that services such as Linkvana or Build My Rank would not still exist if they did not work.

I use both and have done so for a considerable amount of time, they are a vital part of my SEO efforts but are by no means the only two elements.

If one has the desire to generate revenue online via SEO one must speculate in order to accumulate.

[SteveOllington]

Apologies, some of that would be me.

[RyanPurkey]

You're welcome and I'm glad we could all help.  It can be a frustrating endeavor when things go wrong, you don't know why, and don't know who to ask.  Hopefully the people here helped give you both insight and some peace of mind.

[joemas99]

Yes i do. This was a fruitful weekend for me to sort out many ideas I needed opinions about. I now have a plan yo put into place that I think is appropriate for me. It's interesting to see the wide views that exist on links, especially from a group that mostly does this for a living.

Special thanks to you, EGOL,marcus and all else who shared your views. I will continue to post and use this service.

[RyanPurkey]

Dunamis has given you some exceptional suggestions that really helped answer your reply to me in regards to creating calculators and link bait for people that may not directly produce clients but could easily give you all the backlinks you need. People that have grown up with the Internet are actually in their 30s now and beginning to become concerned about things applicable to raising a family: savings, retirement, new businesses, financial planning... These are all areas that you could tap into. Catching up on this thread and reading the various suggestions it seems to me like you have plenty to work with.  Great answers from the MozVerse!

[jennita]

Hello my friends! It looks like the conversation has gotten a bit heated here. Before I say anything else I'd love it if you all would take a read through the SEOmoz Community Etiquette page. This Q&A forum is about helping out our fellow SEOs and not about attacking or yelling at other members.

As you're asking or answering questions, try thinking about the tone the of the message and the kind of responses it might find. I always love to see a healthy debate but please keep personal attacks out of it.

Thanks!

[MarieHaynes]

You're missing something really important here Joe.  The point of linkbait is not all about providing value for your clients.  It's about getting people to link to your site and share it on social sites.

For example, in my real estate site, if I post reviews of restaurants in the areas which we service, this will likely not get us any real estate business.  But, if I post reviews and then encourage the restaurants to get people to vote for them, the restaurant owners are likely to post a link that says, "Hey, go vote for us on this site...."  Those backlinks are natural in the eyes of Google and will likely boost our position in the SERPS.  Having a higher position in the SERPS will get us more real estate clients.

Thanks for the offer....I wish I could help but I am swamped with my own projects right now.

[joemas99]

I welcome your way of thinking, it is similar to mine in being creative. My stopping point however is that most people who will pass this type of thing around are not the people who will pay thousands of dollars  for professional help, and who need it right away (the two qualifying Q's for our services). There actually are calculators like that in existence, it has some value, but not much. Anyway, i don't want to seem like I'm negative. I like your idea of seeing what most people are concerned with. Actually I already know most of what my clients are looking for. I think when I write content pages as I am doing now, I will add my insights from experience. Instead of just giving my version of the same boring stuff, I could have it be around what to do based on my tears of experience dealing with those issues. Thanks a lot. I'm still serious about my offer. Or i can trade you for free tax advice, or something.

[MarieHaynes]

Here's what I think most people don't understand about using things like calculators for linkbait:  They have to be something

• people really need
• people really want to use
• people can't find easily elsewhere
• people want to share with their friends

So, a download link for free advice may not really count as linkbait.

Here's how I would challenge you to come up with a linkbait idea...Think of something that once people discover it they would want to share it on facebook.  Now, I'm not in the tax niche but here's what I just did.  I just went to Yahoo Answers, and typed in "taxes":  Yahoo Answers search on taxes.  This shows me what kinds of questions people are looking for the answers to online.

So, then, I would scan the questions and see where I could build a tool or calculator or even create a great content page that people would want to share.  I see that someone asked, "How high do income taxes have to get before Americans just stop working"...Well that got me thinking....I'd like to know how much money I would have to make to push me into the next tax bracket.  It would be cool to have a calculator that lets you put in your current salary and it would tell you roughly how much you would be paying in income taxes.  Now, that's really simple, but you could go places with it.  You could have examples, like a chart that says, "The average fireman makes $x per year and pays $y in taxes", "The average major league baseball player makes $x per year and pays $y in taxes".  It could be a calculator or it could be simply a content page.  If you make it controversial (i.e. talk about how much taxes certain celebrities might be paying) then this would make it more shareable.

Man, there are some great questions I see scrolling through Yahoo Answers....you could have a field day with content creation after reading these!

[joemas99]

My programmer did create a download link on free advice we offer to save people from spending thousands needlessly, but it didn't take off much. occasionally I can trace a hit back to a site that hosts it.

I like the current events thing. I plan on creating a news site so my posts to it can be part of google alerts, which will also show up in google searches since they do that now.

I'm seeing that I can create posts that help people given the current events in my industry and get that circulating, rather than just focus on key words that rank. The buzz should be about how I can help with a current situation for free. Interesting! Sometimes when I post a comment on the huffington post i'll get about 20 hits that day.

maybe I can pay you to create a plan for my business for social marketing, i like what you have to say. Email me at joe@taxproblem.org. We can put our heads together on this. i have ideas too, but still trying to find the right balance of SEO techniques and marketing.

[joemas99]

Thanks for sharing that. We are currently putting in place creating content daily and then submitting it for traffic. We social submit and must admit we quickly must change the link mix. social sites and directories do dominate the links. I like how you favor content and then recognize the need for a little push with social submitting. Again, I appreciate your forwardness about this, and your taking to time to look at my site..

[EGOL]

Joe, I took a quick look at your site and you have done a lot of work on content.  Also, I searched a couple of your topics on Google and saw information that you have created filling the first page of the SERPs on a variety of other websites.  Sometimes your site is on the first page too.

Our approach is very different from yours.  We produce a lot of content - as in your field the potential topics list is enormous.  However, we never give it away.  Everything that we publish is on our own website.  Why?  We don't like to feed our competitors and we want to be the "go to" source for information in our niche.

Consider this..... when I searched for some of your topics I saw your site at let's say position #5 but content that you created on the same subject on websites ranking above you.  If they didn't have your  content on their site  then maybe your site would rank at postion #3 and thus be getting more traffic (and links, likes and tweets).

We spend zero time on linkbuilding.... 100% of our time on content building.  All of that linkbuilding time (lets say you spend 50% of your time hunting links then spending it instead on content would double your content library  and put you in the SERPs on twice as many topics and have twice as much content to impress any visitor.)

The only deviation that we take is to submit occasional... maybe once a month or two... items to sites like Reddit or slashdot or stumbleupon.. where we can quickly share new content with a large number of people.

The links arrive very very slowly... but content that we launched 18 months ago and that ranked in the SERPs on page three at the start is now ranking in the top three positions.  These natural links are so much more valuable than links obtained by other methods.  And they require zero time from  us.

You can make links, likes and tweets occur a little faster by making it easy for visitors to share your content socially.  We use the AddThis.com buttons to facilitate.  They work great.

You asked  what other people do for links... there you have it.

[MarieHaynes]

Here are my thoughts.  My first strategy is to build great content.  But, it's true that no one will link to your content if they don't know about it, so sometimes you need to do other things to get your site noticed.

My second plan of attack is to create linkbait.  I've had good success with designing a couple of calculators.  The trick is to find something that is REALLY helpful in your niche but that is hard to find elsewhere on the web and to make it easy for people to share on FB and other social sites.  These are not always easy to think up!  And you need to have the skill to program the calculator (or the cash to hire a programmer).  Another type of linkbait I use is to blog about current events, but give people a solution.  For example, when the earthquake in Japan happened, a lot of people in my niche were searching for a particular thing  in regards to radiation.  I wrote an article that answered these questions.  I made sure that I researched my keywords and crafted my title so that it ended up attracting a lot of SERP attention even without having backlinks.  Because that was a highly searched term for a couple of months it brought traffic and links to my site.

For my informational site the above is all that I do.  I will occasionally email a site owner to let them know about some great content that I have produced, but not often.  I let my readers promote my content.  I make it easy for people to share it in social networks.

I also run a real estate site.  It's new and I am currently in the stage of creating a great site so that when I start a link building campaign people will have quality stuff to link to.  My first plan of action for my real estate site is to publish a very comprehensive article rating the top ten neighborhoods in my city.  I have crunched census data and have my top ten.  Then I'm going to write a great article about each of the neighborhoods.  Once I have incredible content I will do some press releases, I will personally email local and national newspapers, and I will email people in my niche who will be interested in this type of content.  I may eventually add reviews of restaurants, hotels and other businesses within these areas in the hopes of gaining links from those businesses.  The possibilities for this one bit of linkbait are endless - I could offer badges (with an embedded link back) for the top businesses, I could have a contest for the schools in each area to come up with reasons why their school is best (which would encourage more linking), etc. etc.  My brain is so full of ideas that I don't have time to build all of these things!

I may do some manual linkbuilding for the real estate site such as a few quality directories.  I will analyze my competitors' backlinks to see if there are any good opportunities for me.  But, so far what I have seen in the competitive link tool are low quality directories that likely won't help.

I considered buying some links, but it's looking less and less attractive to me.  For a previous site of mine I bought some links from "sponsor pages".  The sponsor part was complete bull because you basically paid some money to sponsor a product you've never heard of and you got a link from a high PR page.  These links definitely did help my site.  And, I can see how it's tempting to go after them.  But here's my thought on link buying:  I think that Google is getting better and better at detecting paid links.  There are some that they will never get such as if I pay my neighbor to write a blog post about my business and include a link.  But, for things like sponsor pages and link farms and "buy an article on this page and we'll link back with three keywords", Google's got Phd's working on anti-spam algorithms.

So, I would hate to go through years of building up my business via linkbait and hard work and hours and hours of content production only to find that I get penalized a few years down the road because I bought some paid links.  I can't imagine losing first place rankings, and all of the income that goes along with that (especially for our real estate site) because I got penalized.

That's my strategy for you.

[joemas99]

I agree with you.  But,I wish it was that easy. I know my stuff and explain it well. Feel free to visit my site and see. Most taxpayers in trouble are still of the mindset that the company that makes the most promises is the one to hire. I have national competitors who still have a huge business even though a Google search will reveal all the complaints and government actions against them.

I know that the more targeted hits i get the more business we will have. We usually win when compared to others a lead is considering.

I'm just trying to sort the good software from the bad really. Considering adgooroo now, any comments?

[joemas99]

Totally agree. I'm just a bit slow sorting through useful tools v.s tools that break Google's rules.  It's my nature. I'm searching for the most effective methods. This weekend is getting me closer . Considering adgooroo now for link assistance, any thoughts on that?

[SteveOllington]

Careful EGOL, he doesn't like being slammed like that

[SteveOllington]

/sigh... never mind then, I'll leave you to figure it all out for yourself.

[SebastianDyer]

He's not trying to increase his Moz points - he actually requested to opt out of the free month I believe. I won't respond to your posts again as I know you don't like it, but I'd just like to add that no-one here is trying to slam you and we're just trying to give friendly and useful advice.

[SebastianDyer]

Very good response.

[joemas99]

Don't appreciate the slamming. It sounds you you are new to your profession and still need to justify yourself being right even though you don't read questions carefully. Don't respond to my questions anymore unless you are just trying to increase your moz points, which I wouldn't put it past you to do. If you look at my site you would already know that i produce good contact, and some competitors linked to it on their own, but you would have to read comments carefully before answering them to know this. DON'T COMMENT ON MY POSTS ANYMORE. If you want to slam me send me an email.

[EGOL]

Great content is the backlinks strategy here.  We do nothing else for backlinks.  Just post it on the website and people link, like, tweet, etc. spontaneously without any effort from us.

Write great content about CPA- IRS Problems.

Aren't you supposed to be an expert on that?  Show the world. Show your clients.  Show the search engines.

If you know your stuff and explain it well it should be far better than the backlinking "systems".

[SteveOllington]

Thumbs down is from me. Sebastian is right, this is not a forum for continuous questions on how to cheat the system.

People are trying to give you good advice and you are surpassing it with your own feelings on the matter. In that case, why ask?

You state yourself that you don't have much experience in SEO and need help, but then slam that help as wrong when it's given to you.

The fact of the matter is, yes things like bookmarking demon can, and will work to some extent. But, as I stated before it's short lived and it's volatile. If you want to spam your way up then go for it, but don't expect people in here to be encouraging about it.

Linkvana propagates duplicate content of no worth or value, and it spams them to blogs "in their network" on your behalf.

Bookmarking Demon can be used as a tool, not in a spammy way too. You can do exactly what you would do manually through it but in half the time, but it can also be used for spam. If you do use it, as I admittedly do, use it with caution and only in the way that you would have created and posted to accounts manually (in other words ensure the spamometre in set to the lowest place, and don't bookmark random rubbish, only do a few bookmarks as you would have done without the software).

Still though, it's the wrong mindset. What you should be thinking is "What great content can I create, something original and innovative that provides value", then you can ask how to promote that content and you'll be on your way to a much better backlinking strategy.

[Marcus_Miller]

"I'm not saying it doesn't exist, or is impossible to do. There is actually a large community of like minded professionals out there for me to associate with. What I'm saying is that link building does not spread the same way as it does for more popular interests, and as such, the job is different."

I think this is true, to an extent but, if it is hard for you to get natural links, then it is hard for your competition to get natural links also so... if you can go that extra distance, and win some natural links, they will likely help flesh out your link portfolio and help you win in the long run.

Joe, from the heart, the longer you are in this game, the more white hat you tend to get as the black hat or shady stuff does not bring the benefits that you would like and you soon learn to focus on the harder to win links that do the job.

No easy answers my friend, just hard graft and lots of work,but... it can pay off huge.

[joemas99]

Agreed. I have ideas about approaching large companies and offering free services to their employees, and offering schools etc (who have high DA sites) articles etc. on accounting. And will spend time in that area for quality links.

However, i don't believe people naturally link to  the standard old time professions. Dr., Lawyer, accountant etc. like they do to the latest news on Brittney Spears. The internet is still a young persons game. It evolves more based on what values the younger generation has. When I was young my interest were the rock groups i listened to, T.V. Girls, etc. As we get older and have families our interests include finding the right schools for our kids, the right Dr's, lawyers, and accountants. How many people want to spread the word that I know a technique that can save them penalties on their taxes? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, or is impossible to do. There is actually a large community of like minded professionals out there for me to associate with. What I'm saying is that link building does not spread the same way as it does for more popular interests, and as such, the job is different.

So I am really not ignoring the human element (though it sometimes might appear that way), I am being a bit hard core about the need to manipulate the linking structure so that my pages rank high. Thoughts?

[RyanPurkey]

I think your ignoring the human element in backlinking.  You're not trying to copy what appears natural you're trying to create content and websites that are easy for people to link to naturally.  There is such a huge range of sites in Google's index that you have to do some pretty aggressive SEO to get punished for what you do.

When one link from a reputable, high strength site can mean more than thousands of lower quality links (in both visits and rankings) there's definitely a benefit to developing relationships with people that add content to and maintain websites: reporters, bloggers, forum posters, etc.  Of course they don't want to be manipulated any more than Google wants to be manipulated.

There's not a one size fits all strategy to backlinking just as there's not a one size fits all strategy to interacting with people.

[joemas99]

I'll ask as I need to, thank you. You can choose not to reply.

[SebastianDyer]

I appreciate that you're trying to get information about services like Linkvarna, but I suggest you stick to white hat SEO or go to a different forum as you won't find many people on Seomoz who use these kinds of services.

You got responses about this kind of thing on another similar thread - mass submission services may give short term benefits, but you can only last a certain amount before you're found out and banned.