Too Many Links?

[WilliamBay]

Search Term is Indianapolis Wedding Photographers.

Site is http://www.tallandsmallphotography.com/

Their metrics are through the roof compared to everyone else's. They've dropped from 27 in May to 40 Now. 'A' Grade on-site optimization.

Either there's too many links, or there's some bad links involved... I don't know which it is...

[MarieHaynes]

I liked your article.  You had a lot of really good points.  I think that a lot of non-SEO savvy people are still trying to build links by leaving comments, so it's good to advise people not to do that!

I still think you should go looking for Panda issues for this particular client though.  Yes, it's good to get rid of the unnatural links.  But, if Penguin was the only issue for this site then you really should have seen your drop at the time of a Penguin update and there was no Penguin update in May of 2014.

[WilliamBay]

And... as it turns out, I was part of the problem. I had a DoFollow directory on my site that people could use for a little Blog Love action.
There was also a thread on a photography group that has been going on since 2009, that I encouraged people to use over the years.

I've written a blog post here http://flauntyoursite.com/jig-is-up/ denouncing the practice. I have a bit of clout in the photography communities, so hopefully this spreads out there.

Marie, if you wouldn't mind reading this and letting me know if there's anything you think should be added, I'd appreciate it.

I let people down big time. I hope the word can get out there and fix this thing.

[WilliamBay]

Thanks Marie,

I will shoot you an email. Most of my clients are photographers (I do custom website design as well as SEO), so if this is something that's happening more and more, it'd be good to have a solution for them.

[MarieHaynes]

Thanks very much for the recommendation EGOL.

William,  I have seen a lot of photographers that have been affected by Penguin.  With that being said, your backlink profile doesn't look typical of most Penguin hit sites that I see.  The first thing I'd check is whether you have a manual unnatural linking penalty.  This is different than Penguin that is an algorithmic issue and not a manual penalty.

If you've traded links with a lot of other photographers than a manual penalty is possible.  To check go to Webmaster Tools then Search Traffic and then Manual Actions.

If you see "no manual webspam actions found" then that's not it.

I see a lot of sites that go on a link pruning crusade when really their problem has nothing to do with links.  A lot of these sites have issues with the Panda algorithm which really is not a link based algorithm at all, but rather, deals with on site problems.

If you'd like me to have a more detailed look, feel free to contact me via the email on my Moz profile and I can give you a few options.

[EGOL]

Marie Haynes.

Check out all of these link penalty articles on SearchEngineWatch.  http://searchenginewatch.com/author/2779/marie-haynes

Another list of link penalty articles published here on Moz.    http://moz.com/community/users/308135

Her site and book are here.  http://www.hiswebmarketing.com/unnatural-links-recovery/

Those are just some of what she has published.

[WilliamBay]

Thanks EGOL,

I spent a little time investigating to rule out other issues. I didn't want to rush to a conclusion. But I'm fairly positive we're looking at Penguin now.

Since Penguin isn't really my area of expertise, do you have recommendations for good services that are skilled in determining which links would be causing problems?

Thanks!

[EGOL]

And EGOL, what is it that bothers you about the links to other sites?

The blog looks like a link factory.  Are these being sold?  Are they being traded?  Simply by volume there will be links in there to other websites that have been penalized by Google.  Inbound or outbound links can cause a site to have a problem with Google's Penguin algorithm.

Site-wide links in the footer have been a known method of google manipulation for about ten years.  If Prophoto and NetRivet have dozens or hundreds of other sites giving them site-wide links in the footer that could cause a problem.  I would get rid of those links if this was my  website.  They are not necessary.  The site will look better without these advertising links.

**Most photographers actually do use commenting as a means to up their DA/PA. **

That statement proves an observation that I have made.

I look at Moz Q&A every day and pay attention to sites that see rankings drops.  Photographers are waaayyy overrepresented in the sites that post here with problems.  If you do a few searches of Q&A you will find lots of photographers in here cryin' because their sites have great metrics but apparently weak competitors are beating them.

**Most photographers do this as a way to promote vendors that were at the wedding. **

Photographers link to other wedding vendors and other wedding vendors link back to photographers... they do this every week.  Over and over for hundreds of weddings.  It creates a pattern that is easy to spot and looks like manipulation.  They, or their agents, have also spent countless hours finding open photography blogs where they can place a ten word comment and get a link or two.

Their metrics are through the roof compared to everyone else's. They've dropped from 27 in May to 40 Now. 'A' Grade on-site optimization.

This sounds exactly like a site that has been penalized for link spam.  Great moz grading, great link metrics, rankings lower than expected in Google.

Just offering what I would do if this was my site.  No guarantees.

.

[WilliamBay]

Thanks Chris and EGOL,

Most photographers actually do use commenting as a means to up their DA/PA. They occasionally get posts from wedding blogs as features with links back to them. But the majority of the industry uses comments. Plenty of sites have maintained rankings with that link strategy (I'm not saying if it's good/bad or even sustainable over the long term, just saying what has worked for years). 
Could this just be a situation where having hundreds of more links than your competitors could cause the problems?

Also, are there any tools that you'd recommend that could start to actually figure out if the links truly are bad?

And EGOL, what is it that bothers you about the links to other sites? Most photographers do this as a way to promote vendors that were at the wedding. Reading it I admit it's a bit link heavy in the amount of text they have on each post, but is there anything inherently wrong with 5-10 outbound links on posts?

Thanks guys.
William

[Chris.Menke]

I'm not sure there is such a thing as too many good links, which leaves just the bad-links side of your equation. If by "take a sharp ax to what's currently out there," EGOL means to start disavowing those low quality links, I'd agree. Moz's metrics don't really count spammy stuff against you, which can lead to to believe that your ranking factors are through the roof.  It might be good idea to bone-up on your knowledge of link valuations.

[EGOL]

A lot of the links fit the pattern of the examples below.  Google probably sees this and thinks that the only reason these links exist is because someone deliberately spent a lot of time finding a couple hundred photography blog posts where they could type less than ten words and obtain a link, or two, or three.   They would call it blog spamming because the links were manufactured - not given on merit.

Three examples....

http://paperphotographs.com/blog/2012/04/02/columbus-senior-portraits-carly-whetstone-park-of-roses/

http://alexmillerweddings.co.uk/blog/benjamin-arrives/

http://www.jackchauvel.com/the-year-that-was-2013/

If this was my site I would get rid of the site-wide footer links to ProPhoto and NetRivet.  If they are being paid for their service then linking to them is probably not a requirement.  If it is a requirement and I am paying I would leave them simply on principle.

Another thing that bothers me is that the blog posts each have a load of links out to other sites.  This, I would think, is unnecessary.  I would stop doing this and take a sharp ax to what is currently out there.