Ethics questions / discussion on SEO

[UpperCapeSpartans]

Please forgive me if I'm asking too many questions.  I'm new to MOZ and have a little bit of experience with SEO, but not that much at all.

The question of the day pertains to using keywords that refer to another brand in order to bring search traffic to your site as well as compete on searches against your competitor.

I'm certain this is not a unique case, however; it's early in the morning and my brain isn't working well enough to come up with a comparable example, so I will use my own situation.

"Pop Warner" is a youth football brand.  It's been around since 1929 and it's synonymous with youth football now.  If someone is looking for a place to enroll their children, they will typically search for "%Town_Name%" + "Pop Warner"  Pop Warner however; is not the only national governing body for youth football.  The association (company) that I'm doing work for is an American Youth Football Program.

Now, is it considered bad form, evil or whatever to optimize using a term such as "Pop Warner" on my site if I'm NOT affiliated with pop warner whatsoever?  If the answer is yes, can you provide me with direction as to how this should be handled?  If no...than I know how to handle it.

[MiriamEllis]

What a great discussion going on here on this one! Love our community:)

My thoughts on this are:

1. I agree with Donna's suggestion of seeking legal advice on this before you begin using another brand's name on your website.

2. If you are legally advised that it's okay to do so, then the comparison model is a legitimate topic for content development. Explaining the differences between your organization and that of your better known competitor will be educational for parents and guardians considering their local options for youth sports. This will be good information for them to have.

I would suggest approaching this very mindfully and with full transparency that your organization is completely separate from Pop Warner and has no affiliation with this organization. Your strategy must have education as its basis in order to avoid the totally unwanted outcome of local parents deciding you are trying to trick them into thinking your organization is anything other than what it truthfully is - that's certainly not going to be the start of a happy relationship! After all, what you really want here is for your organization to build up a brand that earns local recognition as a wonderful option for youth sports. You don't want to build Pop Warner's brand - you want to build your own.

[DonnaDuncan]

I suggest you get some legal advice before you start using "Pop Warner" without their permission, even when you're being clear, as others have suggested, that you're an alternative and not an affiliate.

I'm not a lawyer, I just know clients who have received cease and desist letters when they used another company's brand name when trying to position their website in search results. The brand name could be interpreted as everyday language - "sell my house" for example. They ran into problems when they used it in their domain, title tags and page headings.

I recommend erring on the side of caution or speaking with a lawyer before potentially overstepping. Even if you're totally in the right, it could take a lot of time and money to sort it all out if you're perceived as crossing the line. Who needs that? If money is a concern, maybe there's a parent in your organization that has the legal expertise you seek?

[justin-brock]

I agree with Kingof5.

Don't impersonate another brand or mislead in any way. Instead, create content that distinguishes you and what you offer from "Pop Warner". You could use the phrase "Pop Warner Club Alternative" and still be optimized for "Pop Warner".

Just be clear you aren't them. And be honest with anything you say about them.

[UpperCapeSpartans]

Mr. Menke (and everyone else),

I sincerely thank you all for taking the time to address my question.  I don't think that inviting people to view the competition is that big of a deal because of the synonymous nature of the activity/service and the branding.   I can't imagine doing the same thing for my small web firm...I wouldn't put my competitors name or information on my site or in my search terms because yes...people might be searching for "My Town Web Design" and somehow stumble upon a page that actually ends up referring them to my competition.

In this case, people who are not familiar with youth football will likely search for "My Town Pop Warner" when what they really mean is "My Town Youth Football".  Anyone who has a son who plays football or a daughter who cheers (or vice versa), can understand and appreciate the difference between Pop Warner and American Youth Football.  My chief concern however; is that if I do not have something on my site that provides competition to "My Town Pop Warner" I'm potentially missing out on people who will sign up for Pop Warner never having known that there are alternatives.

[Chris.Menke]

Upper Cape,

In most cases, there is absolutely nothing wrong with content that compares your value, feature, benefits to your competitors'.  Doing so gives you the opportunity to use their name in your content and even in your title, e.g. optimize with/for the competitor's name.  It's a double edge sword though, because it means that if visitors find you first for that content, you're inviting them to check out your competitors.

[Kingof5]

It's totally fine. Optimize for the term and have the landing page be a page on your site explaining the difference between and benefits of your league vs. Pop Warner.

Zappos does a similar thing with coupons - http://www.zappos.com/truth-about-zappos-coupons

[UpperCapeSpartans]

I'm not trying to pass myself off as another company per se.  Let me try to explain just a little more because I feel as though I failed initially.

Pop Warner is a national brand with thousands of INDEPENDENT local participants who participate in the Pop Warner program.  Assume that your town doesn't have a youth football program, you could file the paperwork with the state, incorporate as "Company_XYZ, Inc" with the purpose of athletics and then contact the regional Pop Warner league and ask for admittance into their conference, which would give you the opportunity to play against other towns.

You'd likely setup a site as "My_Town Pop Warner.com" and do business as "My Town Pop Warner" rather than Company_XYZ (the legal / corporate entity).

Now, with all of that said, the term "Pop Warner" has become synonymous with youth football at pretty much all levels.  "My Town Youth Football" is a good search term but "My Town Pop Warner" is also a very popular search term.  "Pee Wee Football" might also be a decent one although I haven't heard many people use that phrase lately.

So the question is...if I have a site that offers youth football to MY TOWN but we're not a Pop Warner ball club, is it wrong to optimize a page for "My Town Pop Warner" regardless of the actual content of the page.  I'm not trying to "trick" people into believing that this site is a pop warner site.  The angle here would be to show people who are otherwise unaware that there is an alternative to "My Town Pop Warner.com"

[TomRayner]

To be brief:

You get people and other brands paying and bidding on Adwords to appear next to a competitor when people search for that competitor.

I don't see why SEO should be any different (ethically).

Whether it's feasible and worth your time optimise, however, that's different.

[Andy.Drinkwater]

Hi,

Trying to pass yourself off as another company is never good in anyone's eyes - especially Google's. Keywords are based around your own phrase requirements and where Google thinks that you should appear for them.

Can I ask, are you looking to rank for the Pop Warner phrase, or something else? A brand is always going to rank well for a phrase that includes that name - it would be a bit of a slog to try and knock them off really.

-Andy