Welcome to the Q&A Forum

In terms of what is right and wrong, don't just look at this from an SEO perspective, remember that you want something engaging to people seeing you in the SERPs. You want to get clicks - there is little point in having a good placement but you are putting potential visitors off.

Be as descriptive as possible, but without adding more in just for the sake of it. Sometimes a short title can be more effective than a longer one. Lots of people skim-read, so keep this in mind.

Add important information to both title and description as needed.

-Andy

Spinning and article distribution are not necessarily anything to do with a PR0 site. What you were doing was not what is considered an ethical practice, and I am not surprised you were penalised.

PR0 sites can have good content and can be worthy of links back, but you want niche sites related to yours, not random ones that take spun content.

Regards,

Andy

Hi Deedra,

It isn't about SEO per se, but if your client are trying too hard and then along comes a number of other clients, one who seemingly does no SEO at all, then you would have to look at both their content and backlinks. If someone is writing content (or has content) that Google sees as more reputable, then this could easily be part of their success.

If they are sharing externally, or via social channels, this could also be having a big positive push for them.

Our client is even spending money in Adwords and their competition isn't

This will have no impact on SEO at all.

Make sure that any link building you are doing is from good sources - make sure all content is amazing and better than others - make sure there is enough for other to want to share them through Social Media.

-Andy

Problem is I still see these URL's indexed and this has been in the robots now for over a month. I am wondering if I should just do

It can take Google some time to remove pages from the index.

The best way to test if this has worked is hop into Webmaster Tools and use the Test Robots.txt function. If it has blocked the required pages, then you know it's just a case of waiting - you can also remove pages from within Webmaster Tools as well, although this isn't immediate.

-Andy

That sounds to me like you are wanting to start your own little link-farm - I would advise you steer well clear of this!

Regards,

Andy

Without actually looking at both sites, it is impossible to say why. It could be something or nothing. It could be just one link or over optimisation on your site?

I would do some digging and see what you come up with.

-Andy

To be appearing so far down the SERP's, it sounds like a trust issue from Google.

How old is the site? Have you performed an audit to see if there are issues lurking anywhere that could be causing problems? As Hector said, you are no-following links from the menu, but based on what you said above, this is to prevent the fact this information is pulled in from other sites? I suspect problems might start from around here.

From Google, this might seem like a strange way of doing things. There is no harm in allowing the links ( I would not advise no-following these), but you can no-index pages that you worry might get caught up in duplication.

Let Google crawl your site and see the pages you don't want indexed.

-Andy

Avoid the sites that got hit with the Google stick. You will spend waste time chasing your tail for nil / minimal gains.

Regards,

Andy

I've been doing it for years and have never come across this issue.

Look towards an algorithmic penalty too. There is no telling what could have caused this, so you need to cover all bases.

-Andy

I have sent Dan from Screaming Frog a tweet for you Fred. I'm sure he will be along presently

-Andy

Google is smart enough to know that not every link is something you have added, or indeed can do anything about, so don't worry too much.

Can you see your link on those sites or pages? Do you feel your traffic is suffering? You could try and ask them to take down your link, but I wouldn't hold up a lot of hope for getting an answer - but never say never

Regards,

Andy

Hi Radi,

Syndicating content isn't always bad if it is done right, and Google is pretty good at getting this right anyway. They know that you can't stop someone copying your content.

Have you checked to see if they are setting your pages as the canonical page? This is the way that syndication should work - ideally they would rel=canonical back to the page where the article resides on your site. If they don't, I would be asking them if they would mind doing that for you. You clearly don't mind good exposure, but I would call it a safeguard for both sites.

-Andy

Hi Edward,

If you are looking to find supporting keywords, a nice little tool for Wordpress is SEOpressor. It costs just a few dollars a month and allows you to get suggestions for LSI keywords. A great and inexpensive way to enhance your keyword research.

-Andy

Hi Vasil,

Don't forget that mentions as as much a part of any link building campaign as actual links themselves now. Google doesn't want to see lots of the same link in an article so go for some mentions as well as links.

I can't help you with the sites directly as this isn't a technique I employ.

Regards,

Andy

Hi Eric,

It sounds like there are many things going on here. From what you say, it does sound like the competitor might be doing something dodgy, but it also depends if the links are linking domains, or just a handful of domains with site-wide links that are producing that number. Either way, it doesn't sound natural, but Google clearly isn't objecting at the moment.

It is highly unlikely that the structure of the site is what is causing the problem here, unless you have a real problem buried away somewhere - maybe a penalty? It could possibly be the http-https transition, but you can check this by looking in analytics at the dates this happened for clues. I certainly wouldn't be trying to artificially increase the page count without any real benefit for the pages being there though - this will cause you problems.

Try and focus heavily on amazing content, a natural-looking link profile and I would be looking at setting up a strong internal-link structure to your key hub pages.

Google ultimately will deliver results that they feel meet their E.A.T (Expertise, Trust, Authority) requirements. This can be down to so many factors that it would be impossible to know where to begin just from a discussion here though I'm afraid.

-Andy

That's a huge question Ravi. Is there something you feel you are missing or a reason you think you might have technical issues?

Technical covers a multitude of sins and can be anything from structure to duplication or protocol issues.

-Andy

Just do a find and replace in Excel...

Find http://www

Replace with domain:

Then hit "replace all" - It will go off and do them all for you.

Andy

Hi Bas,

Without looking in more detail, it is almost impossible to say how it has been done, but there are so many dirty tricks out there.

Is the site running on Wordpress? Do you want to PM me an example to have a look at?

-Andy

I would have a read of this post Gareth. It runs though some great pointers on Amazon optimisation. There is another good article here on SEJ.

I hope this helps.

-Andy

I'm on a Mac as well Marie but have MS Excel so can't help you on the others I'm afraid.

However, if you get stuck, you are more than welcome to mail me the spreadsheet and I will do the find and replace for you, then mail it back again.

Andy

Hi Tariq,

There are so many possibilities for this. However, can you give me a little info please?

• How old is the site? If it is quite new, then it is common for rankings to fluctuate a lot while Google is figuring out where you should be.
• How have you managed your SEO so far? Have you read any guides? This is always a great place to start.
• Take a look at your content. Where did this come from? Is it written for the site?
• Check your pages and page speeds. I was on a page and it was still trying to load items 15-20 seconds later. However, Google is fairly happy here it seems as Page Speed Insights shows a decent-ish score
• Have you done any keyword research for the site?
• Is there any linkbuilding been undertaken at all?

I could probably go on and on, but see how you get on with those and check your Private Messages for a little more info.

-Andy

I think I know what you are saying, and by the sounds of it, if you rel=canonical page 2 to page 1, this should circumvent any duplication issues.

If I have understood

-Andy

Try Open Site Explorer here Jason.

Also, building links to a wide selection of pages, and not all to the home page, is a positive, not a negative. However, diverse anchor texts and related referring sites play a big part in this and as long as a link has a good reason to exist on a page, I am sure Google will see this as a plus.

Andy

Hi Luke,

Google is smarter than ever when it comes to links, so if something is freely given and isn't advertising, I wouldn't necessarily be no-following all of these.

Have a read through Google's guidelines on what they suggest for no-following here.

How is the site actually performing? Are they ranking badly in Google? Is visibility low? Are there any manual penalties? Have the site recently undergone any big changes?

Lots of other questions to look at before rushing at links.

-Andy

I see - and you are absolutely correct that a canonical here wouldn't be advisable.

The two pages are very similar with just the one product being changed, so I would try to add additional content in there or re-write other aspects so that this doesn't become an issue.

There isn't a 'trick' to get around what you are trying to do here. Two different products and two sets of page titles targeting different keywords. Keep each page as unique and content-rich as possible,

-Andy

Articles should reside on your own blog / site or in specialist sites. For example, it's perfectly acceptable to write an article and become a contributing author on SEOmoz, but if you start adding links to your site, expect to get a slap from Mr RandFish

Best way to get your articles out is to share them via Google+, LinkedIn Groups, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Collaborate with others, ask their views and if they would like to contribute to the article.

No quick wins any more I'm afraid.

Andy

It is indeed. One the one hand, err on the side of caution - on the other, links are required, but with that many affiliate links, I would have though Google was ignoring them.

-Andy

Hi Dave,

The way to do this is by targeting one primary phrase per page. The reason you do this is so you don't fall into the trap of duplication / cannibalisation, which will end up causing you issues. You don't want to end up competing with your own pages.

The way you do this is:

• Page Title - Primary phrase / keyword and Brand
• Page Content - Backing up what the page title says

This doesn't then mean you go in and spam the page, but rather add in content that supports what you want to say. Don't worry too much about getting the keyword into the page as much as possible, but you can use a range of synonyms and LSI keywords to further increase the page diversity. The more descriptive you can be, the better - but no keyword stuffing.

There is no minimum number of words you should focus on, but try and make sure you focus on page usability. If it is too long, you will bore people. Focus on big messages that will cause a thought / call to action and if you do have a lot of content, break it up into bite-size chunks that are easy to digest.

And most importantly, write for your visitors, never the search engines.

-Andy

There is no limit or threshold. Just be careful not to build too many too fast and make sure the referring sites are good quality. Diversity with anchor text is important, as is a range of landing pages - don't send them all to the homepage.

Andy

HI,

First of all, have a watch / read of this Whiteboard Friday where Marie talks all about links and what can work for you.

https://moz.com/blog/what-links-comply-googles-guidelines-whiteboard-friday

In my view, if someone has linked to your site without you asking, then there is never usually a problem, but it depends on the the type of links / quantity of links.

There is too much at play to give a generic answer that will fit everything you ask here. You should look at each site on its own merits, but with the introduction of Penguin into the main algorithm and this now running in real time, there is less of a need to be worried about these kinds of things. There is less of a need to disavow links because Google has improved how it scores these and if it spots a spammy link, is more likely to just devalue it.

-Andy

Personal preference Dave. Like you, I prefer the first.

-Andy

You're welcome, but be careful with directories as they will do very little, unless they are industry specific ones.

Try and target sites within your niche where possible for a chance to get the best links back again.

Andy

All of this ^^

-Andy

There has been some algorithm fluctuations happening in the last couple of weeks, but these are not related to any of the big updates and for the most part, appear to have settled down now. I would say it tied in quite well with that.

Have a read of this post here.

-Andy

By good quality, I refer to anything that has a vested interest in your industry. This can be both new and old sites alike, and, for example, a website design site and a social media website could link to an SEO site and still be seen as being within your niche.

Hi Neil,

I have had very good success with Google places for customers by adding them into more local directories (for one part). Open any places page and go down to the bottom and look at the local results where the site is being found. You want to get yourself into more of these - find out which sites others are being found in and drop your customers in there

Regards,

Andy

Well, I wouldn't ignore what is on your site altogether. If Google has done an update and you are seeing a lot of fluctuation, resulting in a drop, then there is something amiss.

Conduct an Audit of your site to see if there are issues that can be resolved.

-Andy

Well, you can Sergio, but you will get nothing back from them.

Have a look at this list of directories SEOmoz has published and try to find something that is related to what you do.

It's all about keeping it on track.

I would avoid trying to run a website based on keywords or phrases as Matt Cutts has been quoted as saying that they have been paying too much attention to this in the past, so expect this to get a hit at some point. Those that have keywords in the name or that are made up of keywords will probably suffer a little.

Just go with the company name as this is the brand that people will remember and recognise.

Regards,

Andy

Hi Erik,

How are you trying to do the redirect? Can you share the code? I'm not an .htaccess guru, but some of the guys here are.

-Andy

I have never had a bad response with a local directory yet and is something I do for clients looking to enhance a local profile. As for what you get in terms of SEO benefit, a lot will depend on the directory and the type of listing you get with it.

Local directories I have never found harmful as long as you choose the best of those that are available to you.

However, I never stop just at local so it is hard to say just what you will get exactly.

Andy

If Google says they have been giving away too much to websites with keywords in the domains, then you had better be sure that to improve their results, that they will do something with it. However, will they tell us? Probably not. But after doing this for just over 10 years, you learn not to mess around with the search engines. If you feel you want to go against a metric that Google will start using at some point, feel free to put your customer in that position, but it will be a cold day in hell before I would endorse or undertake something like that myself. Andy

Keyword stuffing is always a tricky one as sometime common sense means that there are multiple mentions of a word, but if it is in the menu structure, then it is seen as less of an issue. However, when I look at that page, there are a lot of occurrences in the content and when reading that, it actually sounds quite unnatural. 17 mentions in just a few hundred words is more than I would be comfortable with.

-Andy

What was the error message you got back from Google, Brian?

It is possible for Google to only index parts of a site that are considered worthwhile, but are you sure they haven't just no-indexed the category pages on the site? This is quite common.

-Andy

Yes, I guess there would be a backlash in the same way that panda was about to use triggers to allow them to weed out the site that are not playing ball.... Never try and second guess what Google will or can do... And I speak with more than just a little experience here... and more than 80,000 first page terms for my customers. As soon as I get wind that there is to be a change, I prepare well in advance for my customers so that they will not get a knock of any sort. I guess this is what keeps customers coming back.

What makes it "less of an issue" if the words are within the menu structure? Is there some info you could provide that backs this up?

Google has never really counted what is in the menu as page content. Some mega-menus are huge and carry many more occurrences of words than you have. They are pretty smart in that respect.

One thing you could do, is break the menu up so you have a heading of "Thermometers" and then list the types below that?

As another follow up question, the text uses the singular version 7 times and the plural 10. Would these be seen as the same word in the context of keyword stuffing?

Yes - Stemmed words are seen as the same. If you look in your Webmaster Tools account (Google Index --> Content Keywords), you will see words that are used and the variants of those words. As an example from a client I am working with at the moment.

|

• recruitment, recruit, recruiting, recruited, recruits

|

I suspect you will see Thermometer and Thermometers as variants.

-Andy

Yes, the common thing to do here is noindex the page but leave is set to Follow.

That said, you shouldn't get a 404 unless the page actually doesn't exist. Can you browse to the category on their website?

Remember that google can't distinguish between that of a brand or a small website. They work on algorithms, so throw out of the window what you think should be right and go do some research on it. Matt Cutts from Google was part of a discussion on this. You can't get any closer to the source and was quoted as saying that they have been giving too much away to sites with keywords in the domain. Read between the lines here and you have another change on your hands. I think my time trying to offer advice in this Q&A has reached it's limit so good luck on your search. Andy

A couple of questions, for folks who are in the know about this penalty, if I may:

A couple?

OK, first one

I've heard two pieces of advice that I don't like 1) scrap the site, or 2) disavow all the links.

If you scrap the site, you are starting from a completely clean slate. It could take you a long time to get back to where you need to be. That said, if you are stuck in Penguin, it could be a while before you see a decent recovery. You won't get out until it is run again.

This penguin update, #4, on May 22nd, was it ONLY because of the link text? Or was it also because of the link quality?  None of the updates before it harmed me, and I believe those were because of the quality?

Well, the anchor text and the link quality kinda go hand in hand a little, but it is open to debate exactly what was the primacy focus. You might be right that it was more site quality focussed and that tipped you over the edge.

Could it be for links linking from my blog to my site?  My blog (ex. www.mysite.com/blog)

No, penguin doesn't focus on internal linking. It is purely an external link metric.

If I get webmasters to change text to just the url or brand name, that's better than disavowing, correct?  As long the linking site has a decent spam score and PA/DA on OSE?

If you feel, after checking the site, that it is worth having the link, but the anchor text is spammy, then by all means, save the link.

Is having SOME exact anchor text okay on these links?  Is it just the abuse that's the problem?  If so, how many should I leave? (like 5 max per keyword?) Or should I just change to the url, or disavow altogether, any and all links that have exact keyword matches?

It's important to remember that Google wants to see a natural looking link profile. I have yet to see a profile that doesn't have a few links that are a phrase rather than just a 'click here' or 'brand'.

If you get a link from a news article in a prominent site, they are very likely to use whatever anchor text sites well within the article to benefit the reader. It is unlikely that Google is going to penalise this link because of the trust level of the source where it comes from.

Make a judgement call for links like this. If the site exists just to seed links, then even if it has a low spam score, Google might either ignore the link or set a negative mark against it.

I've downloaded my link profile from OSE and Majestic, and will do so from Ahrefs (I believe it is)?  Does Webmaster Tools have any section that can help give me insights into the issue?  If so, can you point me in the right direction?

Webmaster tools will give you a list of links, but as with any other source, it is unlikely to be every link. Get your links from OSE, Ahrefs, Majestic and Webmaster Tools and bring them all together in one spreadsheet. You are able to remove duplication at that point and get a more complete view of what is there.

Can I get partial credit, for some work done?  For instance, say a major update, or crawl, happens, and I've only fixed/disavowed 25% percent of the links by then, is there a possibility that I get a small boost in traffic? Or am I in the doghouse till they are all fixed?

No, you can get a partial recovery, right up to the point where Google takes no issue. The trouble is, you won't know when this is because it isn't a manual penalty.

Say I clean/disavow everything up, will my improvement be seen in the next crawl? Or the next Penguin update?  As there may be a substantial difference in time there.

You need to wait I'm afraid. There is no way to speed up the process sadly. Get your link profile clean and wait for the next refresh.

I see AHREFS, has some information on anchor text... any rules of thumb as to percentages of use of a certain anchor text, to see if I'm abusing or not, before I start undertaking all of this?  Thanks!

None at all. You need to be able to fully assess the profile and take a judgement call on whether or not the profile requires a clean. It sounds like it does.

Could the penalty have "passed" altogether, and this is just where I rank?

It's very possible. Check the dates of Penguin refreshes and see if they match drops in your traffic.

I'm off for a coffee now

-Andy