Welcome to the Q&A Forum

Hi WrightIMC,

Yep, something definitely happened that week in February. Tons of reports on this. Here is a really good thread on this at The Local Search Forum:

http://localsearchforum.catalystemarketing.com/google-local/3771-places-analytics-problem-impressions-actions-dropped.html

I think it's exactly what you need to read.

Hi Chad,

You must use the local number on the website and on all of the local business listings if the client wishes a Local SEO campaign to be part of his marketing strategy. For all your local SEO, the local area code phone number is his primary number and the toll free number has no value at all. And the area code of the local phone number should match the client's city of location.

Hope this helps!

Now how's that for coincidence? Doug, the post Oleg has linked to was written by Mike Blumenthal after a conversation he and I had about this advice that was being published about linkbuilding to Google Places. So, what you'll see there is Mike's excellent reply to my question!

Good answer, Oleg.

Hi Travis,

Yes, that's correct - no geo information in any way in the business description field. If you want to use service keywords in this field as part of your description, I would advise that you not repeat any words that have already been used in the categories.

What I like to put in the business description field, where I can, is whatever the company has most bragging rights to. Things like:

Voted #1 by Local Living Magazine.

100% money back guarantee.

Serving our neighbors since 1935.

Lifetime warranty on all our work.

Or, if this client carries a certain brand or performs a popular service that was not already used in the categories, I like to focus on those keywords. For instance, a dentist's description might include:

Let's build the smile of your dreams with Invisalign technology.

I like to use this field to set my client apart as more popular, safer, older, better, or what have you. Note, this may not be every Local SEO's favorite use of the description tag, but I have seen it work well for my clients.

Hi Jason,

I like to have both locations on the contact page, and list them separately on the respective landing pages. Regarding citation building, you can use the unique landing URLs in creating the Google+ Local pages. For other citations, you could try the same, where allowed, but some sources might only let you link to the top level domain. A mix of both should be fine.

You're very welcome and I'm so glad to be of help!

Good analogy, Travis. And, just a reminder, be sure you're not putting those geo terms in the business name or description field, either. The only place geo terms belong is where you provide the address. Just thought I'd mention!

Hi Travis,

I can answer the local portion of your question. If there are 5 pre-set Google categories that accurately match your business, then you can do all 5 as pre-set categories, but many businesses find that fewer of the pre-set categories than 5 are appropriate for them. Perhaps 2, 3 or 4 are a good match, and then the rest need to be made up from custom categories your write yourself. My rule of thumb is that you should try to select at least 2 pre-set categories as your first 2 choices.

When writing custom categories, follow these guidelines:

1. Do not include any type of geographic terms in your categories. No New York, no New Jersey, no Boston, no San Francisco, etc. Never put anything like this in a category.

2. Make sure that any custom category you write follows the is-not-does rule. This means it should say what your business is, not what it does. So plumber, not plumbing, electrician, not electrical services. In your case 'truck repair' is not an allowed category, but truck repair company would be.

3. I try to avoid being too repetitive in my categories. For example, I wouldn't want lawyer, lawyers, accident lawyer, car accident lawyer, auto accident lawyer. Note, this is a gut feeling rather than a well-documented rule. Thought I'd mention it though.

I hope these tips help. I am not sure about your WordPress and Yoast questions and will ask one of our great SEOs to stop by for additional advice.

Hi Chris,

Without being able to look at the actual listing, it's difficult to diagnose an issue like this one. If you cannot share your client's details (understandable) can you provide further clarification as to your initial description of the type of search you're performing? I'm not quite following, as it seems you are saying you are doing a search for your client's own business name and location in Google's main search engine and that this is bringing up completely unrelated businesses instead of your client's business. This should not be happening, and I'm actually wondering if this isn't what you mean by your description. Please clarify if you can.

It would be best if you could actually show me the search and results, but if you can't do that, further description would help a little. I'll look forward to your reply!

Hi Jason,

Thanks for providing this additional detail. Yes, that is quite possible for the multiple locations to show up, as in your examples #1 and #3. On your example #2, all I'm actually seeing is sitelinks under the organic listing rather than actual local listings, so that is a bit different, but on your other two examples, yes, for a branded search, that's a common display.

You will note that in those two examples of the brew pub and doughnut shop, the results are all within the same city. Are both of your client's locations near one another? The reason I ask this is, say I do a search for a huge franchise like Jack in the Box. There are 2 of these in my town, and Google shows me both locations in their local results for a branded search...but, they do not show me the thousands of locations this franchise likely has in my state. So, the results for the branded search are being localized automatically to me. So, I do want to confirm that your client's 2 restaurants are near one another so that they can receive that Jack-in-the-Box-type treatment in the SERPs (the same display as in your examples #1 and #3).

My guess is that you will come to see this same display for your client when:

1. The listing is more established (1.5 months isn't very long in Local)

2. Your citations for the second locale have had time to go into full effect (some can take many weeks to become active).

*This is of course under the proviso that the new listing is violation free (adheres to all these guidelines: http://support.google.com/places/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=107528) and that you've done a good job with the Local SEO on the website and on the landing page for the new location, with good markup, and good, non-duplicate content. If you feel confident about this and the 2 locations are near one another and you give it some more time, I would expect Google to start showing your client's two locations eventually. Remember, too, that refreshes don't happen every day in terms of changes in what is being displayed in the Local results, so that will take some time, too. A few good links to the new landing page on the website wouldn't hurt, and be sure the internal linking structure of the site is clear and strong and I think you have every chance of the client achieving this display eventually. What I would not do is make the client any promises as to when this will happen. You can let him know you're doing everything you can to make the data available, but that it's up to Google to pick it up and use it.

Hope this helps, and yes, I do hourly consulting for many different businesses. I'd be pleased to hear from you, Jason, and you can contact me via solaswebdesign.net.

Good luck!

Andy, so nice of you to say! Thank you.

Hi Jason,

You write:

"In the search results the Google Places listing for the 1st location has merged with the website listing."

Is there a way you can link to an example of what you're talking about...if not of your client's site, then of some other business that has the same type of display. Your use of the word 'merged' is making me unsure of whether you are talking about a merged Google+ Business and Google+ Local page, or if you are simply describing that the non-merged Google+ Local page is showing up as part of your client's listing.

Here is an example of the latter for a branded search (containing the business name):

https://www.google.com/search?q=king+hwa+san+francisco&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=0xv&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=king+wah+san+francisco&oq=king+wah+san+francisco&gs_l=serp.3..0.17412.17789.1.18067.3.3.0.0.0.0.93.257.3.3.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.5.serp.BSffYWg0XOA&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43148975,d.cGE&fp=1cc4a42c76cdcbc&biw=1366&bih=625

Is this what you're talking about or are you talking about an actual merge of the Google+ Business and Google+ Local page for a brick and mortar business model?

Also, I'd like to ask what types of searches you are performing. Are they business name searches or are they like: "chinese restaurant san francisco" that are bringing up the original location and the display you're seeing, and what kinds of searches are you doing for the new location that are failing to bring up any listing of the business.

Also, how long ago did you create the new Google Places/Google+ Local listings and how long ago did you begin building citations for this new location? Both take time to go into effect.

*I definitely do not recommend using anything but the actual business name in listing your business. For example, should you choose to add a city name to the business title fields on your Google Places/Google+ Local pages for these businesses, that would be considered spam and could lead to penalties.

The more information you can provide, the better.

Hi Billy,

I agree with the comments members have left to the tune of the many variables in display. Your search, for example, may show you 2 organic listings followed by 7 local listings followed by several more organic listings, but your client's same search could be showing him a different display. If your business meets guidelines for local inclusion, then I would always recommend participation to the fullest.

Regarding a double local/organic listing, this is a topic that comes and goes. In the past, it was common for dominant businesses to have multiple page one rankings, but around the time of the Venice Update, this became very rare. This was followed by some Local SEOs experimenting with techniques that did sometimes enable them to obtain double page 1 rankings:

http://www.nightlitemedia.com/2012/05/organic-and-google-places-ranking-on-page-1/

http://localsearchforum.catalystemarketing.com/local-seo-ranking/719-lqqk-incredible-shrinking-local-serps-traffic-drops.html

These days, I most commonly see double rankings for searches that relate to geographic areas and/or industries where there is low competition. For example, a bakery in a rural area with few or no other local choices may get multiple rankings on page 1, including both local and organic spots. Check out the 2 posts I've linked to for theories on being able to do this is more competitive verticals, though.

End of the day, though, yes, you are correct that one of Google's common displays at this time puts 1-2 organic listings above the local pack of listings, but I would not see this as a reason not to participate in Local if your business model is eligible.

Hi Aaron,

In the example you've provided, I'm 99% sure that the photo of the man is stemming from his Google+ Local page. Contrast that to this search in which a business owner photo is appearing within the organic SERP, presumably due to rel=author or rel=publisher markup:

http://www.google.com/search?q=tech+squad&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS511US511&aq=f&oq=tech+squad&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=5&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=barbara oliver jew&pq=tech squad wi&cp=22&gs_id=a6&xhr=t&q=barbara+oliver+jewelry&es_nrs=true&pf=p&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS511US511&sclient=psy-ab&oq=barbara+oliver+jewelry&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=1cc4a42c76cdcbc&biw=1366&bih=625

You can read more about this markup here:

http://localsearchforum.catalystemarketing.com/google-local/2400-critical-4-local-author-rank-publisher-author.html

But the display in your example seems simply to be coming for the business' Google+ Local page.

Hi Mark,

Have you considered hiring a local SEO consultant to help you with this? The list of questions in my original response are things you need to go over with someone in person to whom you can disclose all the details of your unique business. I don't specialize in troubleshooting issues like this one, but perhaps you could book some time with someone like Andrew Shotland, Mike Blumenthal or Nyagoslav Zhekov in a consulting position to see if they can advise you in an actionable manner and in full possession of the details. Sorry I can't offer more specific advice, but this really sounds to me like a case in which you need one-on-one help from someone who is looking at your listing and history with you. Hope this suggestion helps.

Hi Mark,

By violation-free, I mean that the listing complies with all of these guidelines:

http://support.google.com/places/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=107528

*Note, Google updated their guidelines last week, so worth re-reading even if these are already familiar to you.

Yes, a penalized listing can sometimes still show up for various terms. Please understand, I'm not suggesting that you've been penalized, but it's something one has to consider whenever a site is failing to rank for something. It's just kind of a given that you have to consider that. Sometimes, a penalty is at fault...other times a lack of rankings boils down to other things like stiff competition, distance to center of business, number of reviews or one of hundreds of other factors. So, there is a ton to consider.

Hi Derrick,

I hear you on that, but Google's total guidelines for Local businesses (http://support.google.com/places/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=107528) are very cursory...some might say intentionally so. Google is not motivated to explain word for word how to achieve high rankings in their system, so while the basic mantra of creating content for users and not search engines is their public message, the truth of the matter is that a great deal of what Local SEOs and SEOs do is experimental and is very much about the bots and not people.

When something is found to work, the idea gets spread around and becomes an accepted best practice that aids ranking efforts, until Google changes their rules (think Penguin, Panda, and the never-ending changes of policy in Local). Schema and other types of markup are relatively new, so everyone is pretty much experimenting with this. What you would be doing would fall in line with that, if you choose to test your strategy idea. Who knows, you might discover something no one else has noticed! You're not alone in wishing the guidelines were totally clear about every scenario, but one might say that it's not in Google's best interests to operate that way, right?

Hi Sarah,
Good questions!

Regarding choosing categories - no, do not use geo terms in the categories. This will likely lead to penalization. Some tips: it's best if you can choose at least 2 of Google's pre-set categories as your first 2 categories if you can't find pre-set choices for all 5, but if you have to use your own custom-written categories for the last 3, that's fine. Be sure they follow the 'is-not-does' rule. So for you, your business IS a carpet cleaning company, so a category like that is fine, but your company DOES carpet cleaning and that is not an allowed category. Similar examples: plumber is okay, but plumbing is not. Dog walker is okay, but dog walking is not. Hair salon is okay, but hair cuts is not. So, be sure to follow this rule.

Regarding what to put in the business description field, again, strongly advise against using any type of geo terms in this field (no cities, zip codes, phone numbers, regional terms, county terms, etc.). While there has never been a public rule against this, it has long been observed that the use of geo terms in the category field can dock your listing. So, avoid that. The best use of the business description field, in my opinion, is to offer up your key selling points in this area. For example, if you've won a Best-Of award. Or if you offer a free initial consultation. Or a money back guarantee. Or have 35 years of experience. In other words, share your unique value proposition here.

I also try to avoid using any of the keywords in the description field that I've already used as a category. Again, this isn't a publicly acknowledged rule, but it has been observed in the past as possibly being problematic.

The only thing you need for Google to understand the locale of a given Google+ Local page is its address and phone number field. Fill these out accurately and depend on that rather than using geo terms any place else on the listing - not in the business title, categories, description or anywhere else.

Hope this helps!

Hi Mark,

This is one of those questions where it's hard to provide insight without knowing a ton of information and being able to look at the listing myself.

How did you speak with someone at Google? Was it via their new data issues phone number or did they phone you?

How old is the listing?

How old is the business (how long has it been online)?

Where does the business rank in the local pack in the main organic SERPs (not when actually inside of Google Maps) when searching for 'garage door supplier'? Are you in the top of the pack? Not in the pack at all?

Is 'garage door supplier' the complete search term, in which case Google is using your location to provide results, or are you adding a geo term to that search term, as in, 'garage door supplier san diego'?

How many categories do you currently have on your Places/Google+ Local page? If you've already got 5, I seriously question the advisability of adding more as that would likely incur a penalty (5 is the limit).

Are you confident that your Google+ Local listing is violation free in every way?

These are some of the questions I would want answers to, but again, without actually being able to see your unique results for your unique business, I can only be general.

What I can point out here is that 'garage door provider' and 'Joe's House of Garage Doors' are 2 totally different types of searches. What Google shows within maps.google.com for your business name is simply based on your business name, but what they show on a keyword search is going to be based on your rankings. In other words, if you search for 'chinese restuarant san francisco' there are hundreds of possible results, but Google is only going to show you pinned A-J rankings on the maps. Who shows up their is based on all of the factors that go into rankings. Does this make sense?

Please, feel free to provide further details if you can.

Hi Adam,

Good thinking. Hope it works out well. Situations like these can be layers deep and murky - tough to sort out. Wishing you the best!

Hi Daniel,

That's a question to consider carefully. If you change the business name on an existent Google+ Local page, you will likely lose all reviews accrued, etc. Google would probably prefer that you close the old page and start a new one. Your team might want to hire a Local SEO for a strategy session on this so you're making smart moves. Here's a good post from NGS marketing that's a Who's Who of Local SEOs. You might find someone who is a good match for the project on this list:

http://www.ngsmarketing.com/who-is-who-in-local-seo/

I know just about everyone on that green linked list, and any of them would be worthy of consideration. What I know for certain is that it is really easy to take the wrong steps in a situation like this in Local, so expert advice would be advisable in a scenario in which you're disclosing all pertinent details to the expert. Hope this advice helps!

Hi Derrick,

Thank you for clarifying. While I don't think this would hurt you if you're just adding it to the city landing pages, I doubt that it would have much, if any, ability to influence your organic rankings in places where your business isn't physically located.  I would imagine that links would be a much more influential element in regards to your city landing pages than this markup would. Personally, I wouldn't implement this for my own clients because, after all, their content is stemming from their physical locale, just like their services are, but I'm not predicting that this would put you at risk for a penalty or anything, so if your want to experiment, go ahead. Maybe try adding it to one of your city landing pages and not another and see if you can discern that it has made any difference for better or worse?

Good luck!

You are welcome, Echo. Good luck!

Hi Aaron,

Is your business virtual or local? Do you have a Google+ Local Page for your business, or just a Google+ page? The example you have given stems from what appears to be a merged/verified Google+ Business/Google+ Local page. Google chooses what to display, but please feel free to share details about your participation in Google+ Local, if any.

Hi Daniel,

You write:

"The online business sells widgets and related services. Let's say it's called Acme Widget People. We have already built listings and citations for it."

If this is a virtual business (no face-to-face contact), then a Google+ Local listing and citations for its locale really should never have been built. Google wants face-to-face business only in their local index. So, if I'm understanding this correctly, something was built that should not have been.

I may be missing some of the nuances of this, but it sounds to me like a single business that sells widgets and services and has 2 physical locations. It sounds like multiple websites/multiple business names have complicated the issue. Without being able to review the case one-on-one with the business owner, my advice needs to be seen as general here.

If the business owner needs to maintain his virtual business separately from his brick-and-mortar locations then:

1. He should not be publishing an address or local phone number on the virtual business website.

2. The virtual business should not have a Google Places/Google+ Local listing and building citations for the NAP (name, address, phone number) is actually going to hurt rather than help him because:

3. What he should have Google Places listings and citation campaigns for is the 2 brick and mortar locations. But if Google is finding this other business (the virtual one) out there sharing the address or phone number, the ability to rank the physical businesses will be hampered severely.

Hope this makes sense, Daniel. You are right...the situation sounds complicated.

Hi Elvin,

Thanks for providing such complete answers. This may not be what you're hoping to hear, but my best advice is to ditch the second website. You're running a single business with a variety of services under one roof, despite the separate phone numbers. I would advise you to have

1. One website that fully describes all the offerings of your company and prominently displays your address and one local phone number.

2. A single Google+ Local listing for the business that adheres to the guidelines in every way.

Having read your answers, I'm 99% certain that any other approach will be problematic for the business and could lead to penalties.

Invest in good copywriting for your website so that you've got great content covering all of your services rather than investing time in attempting to build out the services as if they belong to two different companies. That is my best advice.

Hi Derrick,

Can you define, specifically, what you mean by geotags. Are you talking about Schema, rich snippets, geotagged images, something else? Please describe.

Hi Peter,

Thank so much for the live example. I totally get what you mean now. Okay, so the example you are showing is from TripAdvisor, and yes, Google consistently displays stars and review counts, etc., for TripAdvisor-based results, and for other large sites like Yelp. I presume (but am not certain) that these are rich snippets. Here are 2 articles from Google on this subject:

http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=146645

http://maps.google.com/help/maps/richsnippetslocal/

In mid-2012, Google stopped showing stars on their own results after switching to Zagat as their provider. See:

http://blumenthals.com/blog/2012/06/12/google-we-can-show-stars-if-we-want-to/

The most public test case of rich snippets appearing for a small local business was Mike Blumenthal's writeup of getting stars and other data to appear for a jeweler client of his. However, this data then disappeared, only to reappear sporadically some months later. Read this:

http://blumenthals.com/blog/2012/08/09/are-rich-snippet-reviews-making-a-limited-comeback-in-local/

So, sometimes Google will still display this type of data for small businesses alongside their organic results, but it is sporadic. Looking at that same client of Mike's today, I don't see any stars, but who knows, they could come back again tomorrow.  Mike's opinion is that is still makes sense to mark up pages, and his advice is trustworthy.

And, of course, you do have the option of listing your local business on entities that consistently do show stars (like Yelp).

Hope this helps, and thanks again for the screenshot!

Hi Echo,

If it's any consolation, when I do a search for 'echo limo chicago', you have what appears to be a quite intelligible Google+ Local page coming up here:

https://plus.google.com/102263295915484555934/about?gl=us&hl=en

Your address is properly hidden, check.

Your 30 reviews are there, as you said, so check on that, too.

I should mention that Google does not currently support merging for Google+ and Google+ Local pages for go-to-client business models (like a Limo provider), so if attempts to do that are causing any of your issues, I thought I'd mention that, though you probably already know this.

So, regarding your pending status and your that dreaded phone call from Google, here is my honest feeling on this. I think, rather than trying to get help via the Google And Your Business forum for such a complicated problem, you should hire a Local SEO (not me, because I don't specialize in complex troubleshooting). I would recommend you try to interest Mike Blumenthal in your case and see if you can book some of his time to get his advice on the whole history of your issues and attendant fallout. Alternatively, I would recommend that you sign up for Linda Buquet's Advance Places Training with the goal that what she teaches you can help you remedy this. Bring to either of these providers the total history, including your help threads in the Google And Your Business Forum, dates of alterations in the status of your account, screenshots such as you have provided here and everything else you can think of. I honestly think your issues are too complex to be resolved via volunteer help at the Google forum, and anyone is going to have to devote at least a few hours to properly investigate this issue to discover if/how it can be resolved.

I totally feel for your frustration in this. There are so many businesses out there suffering from issues where they fall through the cracks. I believe that by getting either Mike or Linda on your side on a paid basis, if they are available, you will be going to the top of the top for help.

I'd love to be able to offer a simple solution to everything here, Echo, but look at all of the work you've done on your own looking for answers. I completely agree that you've done all you know how, and without some expert help, you can't get further with this. Someone needs the time to look into this in depth and advise you well. Hope this suggestion helps, and wishing you good luck in seeking resolution.

Hi Echo1,

Wow, I've not seen this before. Apparently, Google has associated your name with your business, but as to why, I don't know. If I knew the name and location of your business, I would begin searching for anything that associates your name with the listing. I'll share this question with the other Associates to see if anyone has any leads for you. Hang in there.

Hi Peter,

Can you find a live example of a business that is achieving what you're hoping to achieve and share it with me? I want to be sure I understand, and without seeing an example, I'm not clear on how best to advise you. Thanks!

Hi Brian,

If you are seeing Hamilton Staffing - Chicago as the business name on the Google+ Local page of this business, I have to guess that someone made a mistake in setting up the listing. Google's Places Quality Guidelines read:

Do not attempt to manipulate search results by adding extraneous keywords or a description of your business in the business name field.

So, McDonald's is always McDonald's, not McDonald's-Chicago, in other words. So, what I'm saying is that what you're seeing in the SERPs is likely a violation of the guidelines (not good news). Business title fields should contain only the business name with no additions and should rely on the address part of the listing to differentiate one locale from another. And all citations and company website optimization should follow this rule, too.

Hi Daniel,

This is really a separate question, but quickly, are the brick-and-mortar store and the virtual business the same business, or 2 different businesses?

If the same business, you should have no problem.

If 2 different businesses, then you do have a problem. Only 1 business should be located and publicized as being at the same address.

Hi Elvin,

This question actually has some tricky nuances to it, due to a recent change in Google's Places Quality Guidelines. The two categories you have mentioned (dry cleaning and laundry services) are so closely related and are being run out of the same location, so a couple of weeks ago, I would securely recommended the following:

1. One website

2. One Google+ Local listing

But, things have become less certain in this area, due to the guideline update.

Previously, the language in the guidelines read:

Businesses with multiple specializations, such as law firms and doctors, should not create multiple listings to cover all of their specialties. You may create one listing per practitioner, and one listing for the hospital or clinic at large.

Now, the language reads:

Departments within businesses, universities, hospitals, and government buildings may be listed separately. These departments must be publicly distinct as entities or groups within their parent organization, and ideally will have separate phone numbers and/or customer entrances.

It is up to you and me and every other local business owner to interpret what Google means by this change. I believe that what Google is attempting to resolve here is a situation such as that of a hospital which is now allowed to have a separate listing for the ER with a different phone number than that of their Radiology Department. Does this apply to your business? I am less secure, because there have historically been problems with Google's handling of similar businesses located within the same building. For example, even when 2 doctors have had different suite addresses within the same building, Google has sometimes conflated their 2 listings.

In the past, the old guideline language seemed to refer pretty clearing to situations like an HVAC guy who might abuse the system by creating 1 listing for his heater repair and a second listing for his air conditioning repair. Google clearly didn't want him to do this, and frankly, my gut feeling is that Google still doesn't want him to do this. I think the new language is really geared toward things like hospitals and colleges.

So, as I said, this is a bit tricky. I have some further questions for you:

1. Do you have 2 totally distinct business names for the business? In other words, is one business called Laundry To You and the other called Rosita's Dry Cleaning, or are the business names similar, like Rosita's Laundry Service and Rosita's Dry Cleaning?

2. Are there 2 different physical entrances to the building? In other words, do dry cleaning clients go through door 1 and laundry clients go through door 2? Or, are they both entering through the same door?

3. Have you always had 2 different local phone numbers for the 2 services or do they share a phone number?

4. Please thoroughly describe what the 2 services do as separate entities. How are the services different?

Please, provide as much detail as you can and I will do my best to continue hashing this out with you. My concern here is that the shared address may have always been causing you major NAP consistency issues, but I need to know more, and as I've said, the new guidelines are open to anyone's interpretation, in terms of applicability.

Hi Zac,

As you are a single company, I would recommend going with a single website with unique pages for your different offices. Google completely understands that law firms and other local businesses have more than one office and as you are presumably offering the same services in both Austin and Dallas, I don't really see the need for a different website.

What will be important is that you have a unique local phone number as well as a unique physical street address for the new location so that you can full participate in the creation of local listings for your new office and not let the Austin location detract from the Dallas one or get 'confused' with it.

From all I have read, there is no difference (rankingwise) between this approach:

austin.copplaw.com

and

copplaw.com/austin

I prefer the latter, personally, but you can go either way without trouble. I think you will need to do some minor re-optimization of core pages of your website to cover that you have 2 locations and then will need to work on city landing pages. Let me link to a piece I recently wrote on this topic, for situations just like yours:

The Nitty Gritty Of City Landing Pages For Local Businesses

http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=1403

Can you go with a new website instead of building out your current site? Certainly, but I prefer the latter because it is:

1. Easier to manage

2. You don't have to rebuild the wheel - you've already built it

3. You need have no worries about publishing duplicate content on a second site

4. By presenting CoppLaw.com as a single entity with multiple offices, you will be presenting your business authentically as an impressive, growing law firm with the clout to operate 2 locations.

Hope this helps!

Hi Wayne, There are some good tools out there for what you want to do, but I need to let you know that getting a one box result is not generally a Local SEO goal. Google seldom displays a single result for common queries. In general, what you want is to go for the highest ranking in the local results (the grey pinned results) whether Google is displaying 2, 3 or 7 results for a given query. My favorite local search competitive analysis tool is from 51 Blocks, and it's free: http://www.51blocks.com/online-marketing-tools/free-local-analysis/ It's really nice. You may also want to check out the suite of tools offered by Whitespark.ca, especially when it comes to the art of citation building for local businesses. So, the job here is to set common goals (a high local ranking) for specific terms and then create a plan that will typically incorporate a mix of on-page work and off-page citation creation, review acquisition and other factors. Hope this helps!

Hi Peter, I'm not sure I understand your question. You write: "Many of times when you do search the restaurant or a related query it will still show telephone number and reviews and location. " Do you mean when you search for the restaurant, you are seeing the local pack of results (meaning accompanied by the grey pin and link to the Google+ Local page)? If so, that has nothing to do with Schema. The local listings stem from Google Places/Google+ Local, not from whatever schema you've embedded in a website. I use schema for my local business clients and understand the point of it to be to strengthen the geographic signals the website is sending to Google regarding the client's NAP (name, address, phone number). The goal is not to have that info show up in the SERPs (unlike rel=author or something like that). Does this answer your question? If not, please provide further detail.

Hi Adam,

We need to pedal back here to this:

"The site we are optimizing for him uses the same company, tracking number and a virtual address in the same city. "

and this:

"We have listed the new site in the citation directories...Another thing, Google+ Local for the new site is created and verified but is not showing up in local pack."

You have some root issues going on here. Both virtual offices and call tracking numbers for Local businesses are taboo in Google's local products. For legitimate participation in Google+ Local, your client needs to have:

1. Face-to-face transactions with customers either at the place of business (like a restaurant) or at the customers' locations (like a plumber).

2. A unique, physical street address (not a virtual office, P.O. box or shared address)

3. A unique local area code phone number (not a toll free, call tracking or shared number).

If the client cannot meet all 3 of the above criteria, then he is not suitable for inclusion in Google's local products, and he is not appropriate for a local citation building campaign.

So, this is actually the issue that needs to be sorted out first. Whether your client's failure to show up in the local results is due to a penalty stemming from Google considering the listing to be spam or stems from other issues is sort of moot, here, because the business model you are describing does not sound truly local to me.

For further reading, I recommend that both you and the client study Google's Places Quality Guidelines:

http://support.google.com/places/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=107528

You will see precisely why the business model you are describing is problematic in the above guidelines.

Regarding the call tracking phone number element, read:

http://searchengineland.com/for-local-seo-lack-of-call-tracking-solution-spawns-cloaking-70198

Read that post and all of the links in it, as well, for full information on the history of issues surrounding call tracking numbers in the world of Local SEO.

My feeling is that a wrong estimation of this client's opportunities may have been made here and that Local SEO is being pursued in vain until he can meet those requirements. Having 2 websites now in existence for the client is only going to compound the issues. I never recommend double sites for local business owners, but where there is some reason why they feel they MUST have more than one website, I advise them to make sure that their NAP (name-address-phone) is only published on one of the websites. Everything hangs on NAP in Local and if you're telling Google that both www.johntheplumber.com and www.sandiegoplumber.com are located at 123 First St. San Diego, CA., this will confuse Google and potentially lead to duplicated listings and ranking drops. Total clarity and consistency of data are vital to any Local SEO campaign, but in this case, your first step is going to be to assess the client's actual business model and then determine whether they have a legitimate place in the local index or need to pursue purely organic SEO due to a lack of the elements essential to local inclusion.

Hope this helps!

So glad to hear that, and good luck with the project! Sounds like it will be a big one!

Hi GFujioka,

Good question. Let's start by discussing the definition of a citation. A citation may be defined as a partial listing of a business' NAP (name, address, phone number) anywhere on the web. So, by nature, citations revolve around physical locale...not around service radii. So, for example, a business with a physical office and local area code phone number in San Francisco, CA could ostensibly serve Los Angeles, CA, Portland, OR and Seattle, WA., but their citation campaign would have to revolve around just one locale - their physical one - because citations are all about NAP. Your client has a single NAP, according to your description, so your citation campaign must focus on that.

If the client's competitors have multiple physical addresses paired with unique local phone numbers, then they will definitely have the advantage over your client, because they will not only be able to build out citations for each physical locale, but will also be able to have a unique Google+ Local page for each physical locale. In other words, your client cannot compete on a true local level with a competitor who actually has a physical locale and unique local phone number in Los Angeles, Portland and Seattle, because Google's local results are based on having NAP within the target city.

Where does this leave your client? He must do all he can for his single physical locale (get listed in Google+ Local, build citations, etc.) to participate to the fullest he can in Google's Local products, but the rest of his efforts for his location-less service cities will need to be organic in nature - not local. So, instead of citation building for these location-less service cities, your efforts will likely include content development, link building/earning and social media to help him build organic visibility in places where he has not real physical presence.

You might like to check out this recent post of mine on the subject of city landing pages:

The Nitty Gritty Of City Landing Pages For Local Businesses

http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=1403

I think that might be really helpful for you to read at this point in creating your client strategy. My bet is that blogging and social media marketing coupled with a strong effort to earn links will be this client's best hope of gaining some organic visibility for cities/states where he does not have a physical presence.

Hi Jo Ann,

Local is not about how many websites you have, but how many physical locations a business has. So, one business location = one local listing. If you've got 2 business locations and they each have a unique phone number, that = 2 listings. You can created these listings via the old Google Places dashboard, and that will automatically generate Google+ Local pages, but multi-location businesses cannot merge the social features of a Google+ Business Page with their Google+ Local page at this point. Hope this helps!