Welcome to the Q&A Forum

I think that's a smart idea, echo1. Starting a thread in the Google and your Business forum seems like your best bet for getting direct Google feedback on this.

My pleasure!

You are very welcome!

Hi DarrenX,

You've gotten some very good feedback here. In sum:

1. Let your customers review you where they want to. A diverse review profile is good insurance against massive review loss (which happens in big waves on Google). If you lose some reviews at one site, at least you still have some at other sites.

2. When you have a chance to gently steer a customer toward a review site, Google+ Local is always going to be a top choice, because they dominate all local business verticals. Yelp is the obvious runner-up, given how much prominence Google currently gives their pages, but it is against Yelp's policies to ever ask for reviews, so you have to be careful there. Then, depending on your industry and geography, as members have said, you will find that certain directories happen to attract more reviews than others. See where your competitors are prominent and keep those directories in-mind.

The above is best practice advice for local businesses. However, you indicate that your current client is virtual rather than local, and develops software. I am not experienced with your industry, but would suspect that product review and technical publications/websites would be your target review sources. Maybe things like: http://reviews.cnet.com/?

I think the key here for you is to figure out where your customers are. Where do people go to find software reviews? That's where you need to be prominent.

Hi Again Echo!

This is Vanessa Gene's post on 'Do Not Support'

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/business/OqKS72sqrzA

However, this doesn't exactly describe what you're experiencing and I have seen identical issues reported in the Google and Your Business Forum. Read this thread and try to figure out if it applies to your situation:

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!searchin/business/do$20not$20support/business/TQbDfFELsZo/IRM85Pvxq1sJ

Also see:

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!searchin/business/do$20not$20support$20respond/business/iCugtUxWqxU/sODmbx9aI9kJ

I know I've seen this brought up many times at the Google and Your Business Forum. You might want to do some further searches there for the topic if the above links aren't describing your issue. It's good that at least your listing is still live!

Hi Echo1,

If you find that those keywords are driving traffic, then yes, I'd select them as your categories...but not as your first categories.

Regarding services radius vs. areas served, I recommend you read this thread:

http://localsearchforum.catalystemarketing.com/service-area-business-issues/4780-setting-milage-radius-versus-static-location-places.html

Hope this helps!

Hi Echo1,

What you put in your website NAP should identically match what's on your Google+ Local page. If your listings and citations are without the 'Inc', then, yes, that is how I would recommend styling your business in your indexable website-based NAP. Consistency is so key, as you know.

Hi Raymond,

You write:

I also have an email address, contact@hiscateringbusiness.com, but it seems like Google never likes these.

In fact, using a domain name email address is the BEST method. I'm not sure what you read that indicated that Google doesn't like these types of email addresses, because they are, in fact, the most trusted address.

Never claim a client's Google local business listing under your own account. Everything should belong to them and they must trust you to access these accounts. Remind them that they can always change their password at the end of your contract.

And, as with everything else we discussed regarding differentiating the two businesses, yes, you should be using completely separate logins for the two different businesses. Everything, right down to the email address, should be different, as the client has decided he is operating two different businesses.

Hi Brian,

There is so much confusion surrounding this very common topic because Google has repeatedly changed their stance. The thread Amber has pointed to on Linda's forum quotes the most current Google policy on this. Linda's thread doesn't link to the source of this, so I will here: http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/business/S6APN5ijnOQ

And here is the complete language of what Google staffer, Jade, wrote:

Verified business owner of a page, and is your business moving locations? Here's what you do.__Edit your address in Google Places for Business or in the Google+ page admin area, whichever you are using to manage the page. This will either make a new page or edit the address on the existing page. It may take a week or two after editing your address before you see an update. At this point, you may need to go through a verification process again. Don't worry -- this is normal.__If you see a page that's still got the old address, click on Report a problem and mark that location as closed. Provide the link to the new address or information about the new location if possible. You can find more instructions on closing a location here: http://goo.gl/YZIjq*Now, remember, following the above steps must be followed up by a citation cleanup campaign. You need to find all web-based references to your old address and edit them so that they reflect the new address. This is very important.

Hi JohnWeb12,

Your final link is actually not taking me to the intended results, because it's localizing to my own city, so I can't see this. But, yes, in the other links, there is reason for concern if any third party is creating a Google+ Local page for your client. The one thing I'm not clear on is that, in your provided example, 2 different addresses and phone numbers are being used - one in Edgewater and one in Annapolis. I would need to fully understand the situation to totally 'get' what is going on here. If the company in your example is just one company, and, let's say, the address on the directory page is virtual rather than a real location, then, yes, that could certainly hurt the business. If, in your client's case, 2 Google+ Local pages have been built for the same location, then that is totally a violation.

It's fine to list a business on a directory, but I would never recommend that you link a Google+ Local page of any kind to a directory page. In fact, I will go so far as to say that no third party should ever be creating Google+ Local pages for businesses. Those should always, always belong to/be in the control of the business owner, and not anyone else. So, while I wasn't able to access that very important final link to get what's going on here, I do think you have reason for concern, but how harmful the situation may be isn't something I can ascertain unless you can publish your actual client's own details so that the nuances of the situation are clear.

Hi Steve,

Mmm, problems like this can be really baffling. What I believe I'd try to do in your shoes would be to attempt to edit the data via Google MapMaker (http://www.google.com/mapmaker?tab=MM). I would then go to the Google MapMaker Forum (http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!forum/map-maker) and request than an RER (regional expert reviewer) review your edit requests in that category of the forum. If you can get an RER to respond, they sometimes have the ability to make quite speedy edits and also have direct contact with Google staff.

Can't promise this would work, but it's probably your best bet for seeking resolution. Be prepared to fully disclose all information about your listing as well as providing examples of neighboring businesses that are being given the St. Louis designation so that you are making a good case a clearly describing your issue.

Hope this helps!

Hi Molly,

Thanks:) So glad you found that article relevant. When I wrote that piece, it was because this concept of city landing pages is so important, but so little had been formally written about it. The response has been great! I'm very happy if it will help you. Good luck!

Hi Jayt,

Very good question! Step one is to explain to the client that inclusion in Google's local results is based on the business having:

1. A physical address in the target city (not a virtual office, p.o. box or shared address)

2. A local area code phone number in the city of address (not a toll free number, call tracking number or shared number)

3. In-person transactions with customers, face-to-face, either at the company's offices (like a lawyer or doctor) or at the customers' locations (like a plumber or carpet cleaner).

From your description, your client's business is virtual (serving customers over the phone and online) and therefor, is not eligible for local inclusion. Share the Google Places Quality Guidelines with the client so that can see Google's own explanation of their policies:

http://support.google.com/places/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=107528

Because of your client's virtual, national business model, building visibility on a local level via Local SEO is out. Rather, your client will need to rely on organic SEO in an effort of gaining secondary organic visibility for service+ geography terms (not primary organic visibility via the local packs of results). Realistically speaking, unless the client is in a non-competitive market, this will be an uphill battle, because it is Google's current preference to show mostly true local results for queries they believe have a local intent. If Google already has plenty of businesses that meet the above 3 criteria, your client will need some incredible SEO work to convince Google to show them organically for queries relating to geographic regions where they have no physical presence.

I hate to sound negative, and I'm not saying this goal is impossible, but the client needs to be given the education that will help him understand how and why Google operates the way they do in relation to local data so that the client can make the smartest investment of time, money and effort. Organic SEO may be able to take the client part of the way, but don't forget about PPC. That may have to be a large part of the mix for any company seeking this type of national dominance. Hope this helps!

Hi Gracie,

William's advice is right on. Typically, when a business gets away with thin and/or duplicate landing pages like your competitor is apparently doing, it's either because a) the pages are really, really old or b) because Google doesn't have something better to display. You can provide that 'better' solution for Google.

I think you'll find my recent article on the concept of City Landing Pages to be useful. Many business owners have told me it has really helped them clarify their options.

The Nitty Gritty of City Landing Pages

http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=1403

I hope this helps!

Miriam

Hi David,

If you've got duplicate listing issues going on, then yes, that can definitely affect your rankings. Duplicates in Google+ Local can totally sap your ranking power. In other indexes the main concern with duplicates is that if their data varies in any way, they can decrease Google's trust in the validity and accuracy of your data. So, if you've determined you've got a duplicate problem going on, then that is a very likely contributor to ranking issues.

Hi Raymond,

Good discussion going on here. In my opinion, first step with a client with a NAP consistency issue like this is to be sure that they do have at least one legit physical address and phone number. Not a P.O. Box or virtual address or what have you. Whatever the legit address is...that's the one to go with on all platforms. Then be sure that address is consistently implemented everywhere and clean up all citations that do not match. This can take some doing! Hang in there and hopefully you can put in the work to get this client to the primary goal of having a clean, consistent record. Good luck!

Hi Ivgi,

I'm responding on this thread rather than on the first one I responded to. I received the email you sent me and took a very quick look at your company's website. Within the scope of Q&A, I'm afraid no on can do your keyword research for you - that's a big process that will require an investment of multiple hours of time. What I can do is give you my honest take on your situation in hopes that it will help your company to make a good decision.

• I think there is a lack of clarity in the business model. I am not familiar with the online shopping business model and have not worked with this type of business before, but it seems to me that if your company only delivers groceries to two places, then you aren't just an 'online grocery delivery', you are in some way a local business. I'm not positive about this, but whomever handles the work for your business needs to totally clarify what the business model is. You've stated that you deliver to two cities. Then I see something on the site about nationwide delivery. Which is it?

• The website is not giving me any type of value proposition. Why should I be shopping online? Why should I be shopping online with your company? What is the value? How do I get groceries? Who delivers them, when, etc? The site isn't telling me.

• The website copy needs a complete overhaul. It appears to have been written by an ESL copywriter, and as the audience is likely to be primarily speaking English as their first language, the problems with the copy will not instill trust in the quality of the business.

• It may be that the overall architecture of the website needs to be re-done, and for sure, the company needs a clear strategy for exactly what they are doing. The front entry page appears to indicate that there are 2 different sections to the site, one for each city. But what about the nationwide offer?

These are just a few of things I see in my brief glance at your website. It is my belief that your company's success depends on hiring a professional SEO and Usability team to do a complete audit of the website and create and implement a strategy, based upon market research, that will enable the business to clarify is model, message and promotion options. If they are expecting you to do this in-house, and you are, as you say, a beginner, then the company's expectations are not on-track.

I would strongly urge the business to choose the very best firm they can afford. You need real pros to do this right...perhaps check out the list of recommended companies here on this website.

http://www.seomoz.org/article/recommended

I hope my suggestions are useful. I truly do believe that your company needs expert assistance with their online marketing and should not be expecting an in-house novice to get them results. That is too much responsibility to put on one staff member's shoulders, given the size, scope and needs of the website and the business.

Hi Raymond,

The guiding rule for this client is:

• If he's a single business, he should promote himself as one, via every format, including Social Media.

• If he's running two businesses then every aspect of them, including Social Media, should be completely separate with no crossover of any kind.

He needs to pick one direction and adhere to in all actions he takes, including on and offline promotion, and stick with that plan.

Hi Raymond,

If the restaurant and the catering business share either a physical address or phone number, only one of them should be locally optimized and locally promoted. If you were to try to promote both this this way, Google would be confused. The listings might be penalized, merged, etc.

So, back to my earlier point, if he wants to gain a local presence on the web for 2 different companies, then he needs to get a distinct physical address and phone number for the catering company.  With that, he can promote both businesses locally, as 2 distinct entities. Without that, he has to pick only one to promote.

I hope this is totally clear. It is a little complicated!

Hi Raymond,

That's nice of you to say!

So, here's the thing: if he's going to go with just 1 brand for both the restaurant and the catering service, it is VITAL that he not publish any kind of NAP in indexable text on the catering site or anywhere else. You don't want anything (the website, social media profiles, citations, etc.) to be saying that this second website/second business is competing with the restaurant website in terms of name, address, phone number or website. Honestly, if the catering is just part of his business, I would way rather he only had one website, but if he wants to maintain 2, he should not publish the NAP of the catering business anywhere that can be indexed because it will confuse Google about which business is located at 211 Main St in Happy City, MI at (663) 311-3333 at www.joespizza.com.

Does this make sense?

Hi Raymond,

Great question. Here is what I would advise this client if he were mine.

First, I would determine how distinct the 2 businesses are. If, for example, one is a pizza parlor named Joe's Pizza and the other does high end catering for weddings and is called Weddings by Josef, then these really are distinct businesses. In this case, the owner should be utilizing a completely distinct:

1. Name

2. Phone

3. Street Address

4. Website

5. Google+ Local Page

I do not recommend that Joe's Pizza and Weddings by Josef go the suite number route at the same address because I think their is a chance the businesses could be merged. Instead, I think your suggestion of the catering business being run out of the home of the owner makes sense. And, yes, he should definitely be hiding his address on the Google+ Local page for the catering company, though not, obviously, on the listing for the restaurant.

There are other business models in which catering is just a service offered under the same brand. For example, there is the big franchise, Subway. You can go eat sandwiches at their restaurant, or you can hire them to cater an event. In this case, Subway should simply be building out their own brand to reflect that they offer both in-house food and catering services. They are entitled to only one Google+ Local page, and can select catering as one of their categories. They can build up content on their corporate website to reflect that they do catering.

So, I think the answer to which of these 2 routes is right for your client is to totally clarify his business model. Is catering part of his restaurant's brand, or is he really operating 2 different businesses? Hope this helps!

Hi Andre,

I'm not sure I totally understand your original question. You are only entitled to creating a Google+ Local page for a business for which you own the business name, address and phone number. If other companies (with different names, addresses and phone numbers) re-sell some of your services under their own companies, you should not be attempting to appear in control of those businesses. They should be creating Google+ Local pages and doing Local SEO for their own businesses with their own NAP (name-address-phone). I'm sorry if I'm not correctly understand the business model. Feel free to provide further detail if you're not sure you've gotten the right answer.

Hi SEOSponge,

Totally agree, the process for this is confusing, and Google has change its 'mind' several times in just the last few months. Right now, the approved procedure for a business that moves is simply to edit the existent listing to reflect the new data. Read this:

http://blumenthals.com/blog/2013/02/20/google-local-moving-locations-new-procedure/

And, in a situation like yours, Google And Your Business Forum Top Contributor Mike Blumenthal recommends:

1)You need to mark the other locations as closed and reference the new G+Local page and new address in the comment field
2)You need to change the bad data at the primary list providers
3)You need to change the data every place else that you can find it.
4)Be sure that there no (none, zero, zip) references to the old addresses on the website

You'll see that advice in the comments of the post I've linked to. Think this is the right way for you to go. Hope this helps!

Hi Tonyklu,

What I believe you are asking is how to improve the rank of your client's Google+ Local page for all 5 of his categories, rather than just the 2 high rankings you've achieved for 2 of his categories so far. Is that correct?

If I am correct, then:

1. Be sure you're building out very strong content on the client's site that supports his relevance to these other 3 categories.

2. Be sure you're conducing a good citation building campaign.

3. Be sure there are not violations on his Google+ Local page, and that there are no other issues like merged listings, duplicates, etc.

4. Good inbound links to the website that identify the client's activity in these 3 other categories could help.

5. A slow but steady stream of reviews on the client's Google+ Local page could help.

This advice is on the generic side, but this is the general picture of how you build authority for any category.

Hope this helps!

Hi David,

Without actually seeing the website and listing of a client in a situation like this, it's not possible to give targeted advice. So, we must speak generally:

1. Have you done competitive analysis. If not, try: http://www.51blocks.com/online-marketing-tools/free-local-analysis/ That may show you why competitors are outranking your client for this specific term.

2. Mentioning a keyword in the midst of many other keywords on a homepage is typically not going to be enough to get them to rank for it. As you say, you've gotten this client ranked well for their core terms, so I'm assuming this is a secondary, side term. How much content have you developed for the terms and what does the link profile look like?

3. You must always consider penalties in local when you fail to rank for something you think you should. Have you accidentally violated any of Google's policies? See: http://support.google.com/places/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=107528

These are a few ideas to start with. Hope this helps!

Hi Ivgi,

Good question. In Local SEO, what you're describing is typically similar but not always exactly the same. There are 2 ways to typically get local results delivered to you by Google.

1. Typing in a keyword Google judges to have local intent and then matches to the location of your device. So, if you're in Dallas and search for 'grocery store', then Google will show you local grocery stores near you.

2. Typing in a keyword+geo term (Dallas) so that you are signalling to Google that you want results specific to that location. It doesn't have to be the location you're in. After all, someone located in Dallas may be looking for a hotel room in San Diego and by including 'San Dieogo' in their search term, they are signalling to Google that they want local results for a different city - not for the city in which their currently located.

You can do some testing of this and you will see that Google will show similar results for both types of queries, though there are typically some minor ranking differences. For example the searcher in Dallas who doesn't include 'Dallas' in his search term may see slight variations in which businesses are ranking where in the local pack of results than the searcher does who is including 'Dallas' in his search term, but isn't actually located in Dallas. The differences are typically slight.

You can also test this out by using Google's search refinement tools to set your location to different cities and perform searches. Again, you may see some slight differences than when you aren't setting your location, but they are slight.

I've explained the above because I'm not sure whether the sample search term you've included in your post is your actual search term. I've explained how Local works, but, all this being said, your sample search is not typically going to bring up Local results, because of the inclusion of  'online' in your query. That is telling Google that you don't care if a business is in Dallas or not. You want to buy something online.

In that case, then, no, you are unlikely to get the same kinds of results for the two different queries. 'Buy Groceries Online Dallas' is likely telling Google you want results from Dallas-based virtual businesses that sell groceries on the Internet, whereas 'Buy Groceries Online" is almost certain to return you generic, national results, regardless of where you are located. There may be some Dallas results included, but I would predict that there would be national ones as well.

The best way for you to research this is to perform your own varied searches for whatever your real search term is. Hope this helps!

Hi Scott,

Colin is correct as to the SERP behavior you are seeing after claiming your client's Google Place/Google+ Local page. The client's previous organic rank will be subsumed into his new blended local rank. Once upon a time, it was common for dominant businesses to have more than one listing per page for a targeted keyword phrase. In fact, they might have one or two organic spots, a local spot, a video, directory listings for their company and what have you, if they were truly dominant. Around the time of the Venice update, this changed and it became next-to-impossible to find any business with more than one spot in the top 10.

So, this is something that's important for you to understand, working in Local. Either you have an organic listing or a local one, but seldom both.

Exceptions to this: for some searches in categories or geographic regions where Google has very little data they trust, a business will sometimes have more that one spot in the SERPs. For example, let's say your client is the only muffler repair shop serving 10 tiny towns in the country. If he's got a decent website, he might end up with more than one spot on page one, but that's typically the main case in which you'll see this exception these days.

Post-Venice, some Local SEOs did do some experiments with trying to get double page 1 rankings. Frankly, I'm not sure how well these tactics are working in 2013, but you might want to give this a read:

http://www.nightlitemedia.com/2012/05/organic-and-google-places-ranking-on-page-1/

http://localsearchforum.catalystemarketing.com/local-seo-ranking/719-lqqk-incredible-shrinking-local-serps-traffic-drops.html

Regarding your other question, it's critical to understand that Google views your client as being relevant to his city of location - not the cities where he serves. It's all about physical address. This has led to the development of the practice of creating city landing pages with the purpose of gaining ORGANIC (not local) rankings for service radius cities for go-to-client business models. I suggest you read this piece I published recently on this:

The Nitty Gritty of City Landing Pages

http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=1403

Read that, and you'll be totally up to date on your client's options in this regards.

Hope this helps!

Hi Dylan,

This is, indeed, complicated, and tough to give you specific advice without actually sitting down with you and the listings. My advice here will have to be general. *Note, I strongly advise you not to create any new listings of any kind for your client until you've resolved their issues.

You didn't mention your client's industry, but provided they are not a doctor or a lawyer, my recommendation to you would be to attempt to get into direct touch with Google via their data issues troubleshooter:

http://support.google.com/places/bin/static.py?hl=en&ts=1386120&page=ts.cs

Log into your client's account, go through the troubleshooter and, if you're lucky, you may get Google's new phone number for data issues. This is the fastest way to seek resolution for duplicate listing issues that I know of. Again  - don't move forward in any direction until you get this cleaned up or you will only be multiplying your problems. Hope this helps!

Hi Michael,

You've gotten some excellent replies. I share Chris' sentiment about firing this client if they are telling you - their SEO - how to do SEO. As members have explained here, it has been many years since Google devalued the meta keywords tag, specifically because people were using it in the spammy way your client wants to. In fact, I would let your client know that not only will this tactic not help him, it could very likely hurt him.

Last year, Google updated their Webmaster Quality Guidlelines (share this link with your client: http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66358) to speak against keyword stuffing of this kind anywhere on a page. The language reads:

"Keyword stuffing" refers to the practice of loading a webpage with keywords or numbers in an attempt to manipulate a site's ranking in Google search results. Often these keywords appear in a list or group, or out of context (not as natural prose). Filling pages with keywords or numbers results in a negative user experience, and can harm your site's ranking. Focus on creating useful, information-rich content that uses keywords appropriately and in context.

Examples of keyword stuffing include:

• Lists of phone numbers without substantial added value
• Blocks of text listing cities and states a webpage is trying to rank for
• Repeating the same words or phrases so often that it sounds unnatural, for example:
  We sell custom cigar humidors. Our custom cigar humidors are handmade. If you’re thinking of buying a custom cigar humidor, please contact our custom cigar humidor specialists at custom.cigar.humidors@example.com.

*emphasis in bold mine

When Google makes a point of saying, "don't do this," and website owners ignore the warning, they are courting a penalty.

Share this information with the client and at the same time, lay out a proper Local SEO plan if they are, in fact, a Local business. Hopefully, this session of education will bring them up-to-date on best practices, but if they persist in insisting on spammy practices, tell them you can't serve them. You don't want spammy clients, believe me.

Hope this helps!

Wait...doesn't EVERYONE read about SEO for fun???

Heh-heh!

Glad that was a good find for you, Robert!

Miriam

Hi Robert,

Funny topic, and a good one!

Chris Silver Smith wrote a good post on this last year, in which he states:

It may not ever be possible to know for certain if Google is using quantitative check-in data for calculating rankings along with all of their other factors. As Danny Sullivan has noted before about this kind of data, "correlation isn't causation“.

I think you'll enjoy this piece, Robert:

http://searchengineland.com/are-check-ins-a-local-ranking-factor-112222

I've not seen anything more recently than this that made me feel anything has changed since Chris wrote that, so hopefully, it will be a good read for you about the current feelings on check-ins. Hope you're having a good weekend!

Hi Ricky,

Can you please provide a clear explanation of what you mean by 'geo tagging'? What specific tactics and practices are you considering? The more detail you can provide, the better answer we can give. Thanks!

Hi Anatoliy,

It looks like you have a non-merged Google+ Local page (as opposed to a fully merged Google+ Local/Google+ Business Page). In most cases, this means that you will be editing your photos by logging into the old Places Dashboard, which still controls the backend of most Google+ Local pages. If I am correct that your listing is non-merged, you can go to this page:

https://plus.google.com/117400845160255741148/about?hl=en

(make sure you are signed into your Google account)

Then, click on the 'manage this page' button on the lower right side of the page. This will take you to a dashboard. At that point, you can choose to the edit button in the area labeled 'Your Businesss Info' in the right column.

That should take you to the completely editable dashboard where you should see your photos listed. You can then delete the photos and start over with a fresh one in the number 1 spot.

Hope this helps!

Hi Anatoliy,

I am seeing this Google+ Local page for you:

https://plus.google.com/117400845160255741148/about?hl=en

Both in the main SERPs and as the circle image on your Google+ page, I see a photo of a woman getting a massage.

This photo is coming from here:

https://plus.google.com/117400845160255741148/photos?hl=en

Because this is the first photo in your lineup of photos, it is the one Google is using as your main photo. This seems to confuse many people. See:

http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!searchin/business/change$20photo/business/AiFuzhaOs6g/hd4H1BNxWDEJ

So, if you want a different photo to appear, you need to put it first in the lineup. Be advised, however, that photo changes can take weeks to go into effect.

Hope this helps!

Hi Bede,

That IS good news that you don't see a call tracking number. Good luck with this client. Sounds like an adventure!

Hi Bede,

I confess, I don't have any strong direct experience with Yodel, but, from what I've read in the past, they do appear to have a rather direct relationship with Google and there have been some complaints in regards to their creating new Google+ Local listings (some even with taboo call tracking numbers - uh-oh!). *Remember, I'm just repeating what I've read from other Local SEOs - not what I've experienced first-hand.

Your question made me recall a thread I'd read months ago at Linda Buquet's Local Search Forum. I managed to find it again and I think it will be helpful to you:

http://localsearchforum.catalystemarketing.com/google-places-help-support/4181-yodel-claims-clients-places-listing-but-dashboard.html

What's surprising to me, honestly, is how little overall documentation there appears to be from third party sources about Yodel's process, Bede. Here's an old thread from Mike Blumenthal's saved version of the old Google Local Business Help Forum:

http://places.blumenthals.com/thread3eeb.html

And there is stuff from Yodle like this:

http://www.yodledentalmarketing.com/blog/post/claim-local-search-listings/

But the main thing that I recall about this particularly company was a rash of complaints years ago that their sales reps were somehow convincing business owners that they were calling from Google in regards to AdWords. Do you remember that?

At any rate, my take on this is that there just isn't a ton of 3rd party documentation from the Local SEO community about this company, but that your client may well have had his listing claimed by Yodel, given all of the above. I hope my reply is at least somewhat helpful!

Hi Allenrocks,

You write:

I suppose the solution is to become more creative about rewriting the same services.

Yep, that's pretty much the solution. I know, for some industries, this is really challenging. For others, it's easier. Try to get the client involved as much as possible to discover ideas. Good luck!

Hi Mememax,

Good question and you're getting some good feedback here. Honestly, what these business owners need to do is have a website, even if it's only a single page. Barring this, Google will show their Google+ Local page as their home base these days, but having these listings link to their page on a directory site is not something I would recommend. Even if the business is broke and wants to set up a generic, free WordPress.com (not .org) site, that would be preferable to any arrangement that puts the control of their home base on the web in any other person's hands.

I'm a strong advocate of clients owning everything in their name, even if it's just a freebie website to start out with. And, as the website is such a HUGE local search ranking factor, modern business owners have got to understand that having the best website they can afford is a must, not an option, if they want to compete and use the web as a tool that drives business to their business. If they can't manage to make this investment, they will be left behind. That's just the way things are now, so it may be that the best thing you can do is make them understand that their primary investment needs to be in getting a website before they even consider where to list themselves. Hope this perspective is helpful!

Hi AllenRocks,

I want to be sure I'm understanding the structure of your website. Do you have:

A set of service pages

and

A set of city landing pages

or only one or the other?

In most cases, you should have a fantastic page for each main service you provide, optimized for your city of location. Then, if you want to build out city landing pages, come up with new types of content to make those pages have a point and be interesting and worthwhile.

Something that might help:

The Nitty Gritty of City Landing Pages for Local Businesses

http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=1403

I have had a ton of people tell me that this post really helped them and I think it might be a good read for you.

Feel free to provide additional details if I haven't gotten to the root of your question.

Hi Digitalkiddie,

I would expect Google to be able to understand international prefixes. Can't give you a 100% guarantee on that, but I'm reasonably certain that they are sophisticated enough to get this. So, my advice is to list your complete local number wherever possible, but if some directories require a different format, follow their guidelines and provide what they want.

Hope this helps!

Hi Ve,

While getting your business listed via Google Places/Google+ Local is a start, it is just the beginning of what you need to do to achieve high rankings. This is an enormous topic, so let me link to some resources that I feel will be beneficial to you in starting to understand the big, exciting world of Local SEO.

This is the Local SEO industry' premiere annual report on Local Search Ranking Factors:

http://www.davidmihm.com/local-search-ranking-factors.shtml

This is a piece of my own to help you get into the right mindset for a successful Local SEO campaign:

The Zen of Local SEO

http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=1314

And here is another:

The Rudiments of Local SEO

http://www.solaswebdesign.net/wordpress/?p=1344

And, as Jason has pointed out, SEOmoz recently acquired David Mihm's GetListed.org and you will find some really helpful articles and a great tool at the link Jason provided.

Hope this gets you off to a great start!

Hi Tonyklu,

She'd have to have separate accounts, I believe - one for her gmail and another for Places. I do not, however, recommend that you claim her under any account of yours. Clients should always have independent control of their properties. Hope this helps!

Hi Kesil Consulting,

I'm going to answer your questions in reverse order, because your industry falls under a special category of handling on Google's part. Google does not consider SEO and Web Design companies to be truly local and stopped giving them inclusion in their local SERPs at the beginning of 2010. You can create a local listing, but if you search for your search terms+ city in the main engine, you will not see Google returning any true local results. Everything will be organic. If you were a plumber or a lawyer, it would be a different story.

Because of this nuance, while you can certainly build citations if you wish, the effect other businesses could expect of this pushing up their local rankings will not be applicable to your company.

On your first question, all of local hangs on NAP (name-address-phone number) and each component is vital. I'm not sure about what you have read in regards to address not being important (feel free to show me a link to the article you read), but consistency of NAP is critical to any Local SEO campaign. Any variance in any of these 3 elements can cause disaster, so, when listing any company in any local business index, it's crucial that these elements be identical.

Hope this helps!

Sounds like a good idea.

How to poke a listing. Sign into your Google Places account,  click edit, DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING, but hit submit. Google reps have actually recommended poking a listing on occasion (maybe every few weeks or once a month) helps to keep the listing fresh. Sometimes it clears up data issues, so it might be worth trying, in your case.

Hope this helps!

Hi DWallner,

I found your Google And Your Business Forum thread, here:

http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!searchin/business/missing$20photo/business/1OKqBIi9DW8/dZbbPQBAQFkJ

The fellow who wrote to you is a Google Top Contributor, which, while not being the same thing as a Google staffer, is the next best thing. However, his suggestion in his last response to you is not appropriate, as I am assuming your business is a service radius business, and therefore, is ineligible for merging.

Google Places still exists as the dashboard via which service radius business like yours can control their local listing. On the public side, what you put in your Google Places dashboard is what should display on your Google+ Local page (Google's new public local product).

I agree, what you are experiencing is very odd. You have a ton of images on your +Local page to choose from, but Google is displaying some type of weird placeholder for you in the preview. While not a disastrous thing, I agree you are right to want to discover the cause of this.

I have seen this suggestion, elsewhere, of trying to upload a photo through the public option. I don't consider this gaming the system. It's an experiment to see if you can jog Google into displaying something for your business. The image system is buggy and it can still take several weeks for photos to appear, though often it is faster than this now.

My only other suggestion would be to poke the listing. Have you tried this? If you don't know what 'poking' is, just ask, and I'll explain it.

I don't have an answer for why you are experiencing this. It could well be a bug, but, if it is, I'm not finding documentation of similar problems in the places I would expect to find such reports. Please, follow up with me on the above.

Hi Tony,

Unfortunately, I'm unable to replicate the odd thing you're seeing with the zooming out and re-searching allowing the main listing to appear. All Google will show me is the Parts & Service department listing on the map.

When I actually used your geo-modifier 'westchester toyota yonkers ny' in traditional search, I see both listings coming up, with the main listing being A and the service department being B, but if I remove the geo modifier, I only see the service department. Agree, this is odd, particularly since your main listing has so many more reviews than the other one does.

I'm seeing identical results when I remove the geo term and set my location to Yonkers.

I honestly can't think of another instance in which I've seen the zoom behavior you've described in Maps, but it's clear from the organic searches that, for some reason, Google is viewing your Parts&Service department as the more authoritative listing. My recommendation would be to communicate with Google via this form:

http://support.google.com/places/bin/static.py?hl=en&ts=1386120&page=ts.cs

And see if it takes you to their new data issues phone number, in which case, you might be able to get an insider to look at the situation. Sorry not to be able to resolve this, but there is some reason why Google is favoring one page over the other, and I can't determine what that is.

Hope this suggestion helps!

My pleasure, Joe!

Hi SEOSponge,

I need to provide a dissenting opinion here. I think the page you've linked to absolutely violates Yelp's guidelines and that they would definitely have a problem with it. To quote David Mihm's recent awesome piece on review filters and, particularly, Yelp (totally recommend you read this: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/review-filters-in-local-search

• Don't ask anyone to review your business on Yelp.
• Don't ask anyone to review your business on Yelp.
• Don't ask anyone to review your business on Yelp.

That pretty much sums it up, and I feel that Yelp would find this commercial cleaning company's page to be a violation of that. Google is getting stricter, too, with each passing year.

I recommend that you read David's piece and, in particular, that you follow the links he provides to the guidelines of each of some of the major review players. Some platforms do not appear to care if your encourage reviews, but others definitely do, so if you're considering creating a page like the one you've pointed to, I would recommend only including those platforms that aren't so dead set against review solicitation.

An alternative that might be worth considering is to not ask at all, but to use your strong review profiles for bragging rights; i.e. 'Check out our 5 star reviews on X'. That way, incoming customers are made aware that you have review profiles, but you're not asking for anything. This might be a safer way to go. But, if you do want to go with a 'Submit A Review' page, definitely don't put Yelp on it, and carefully read the guidelines of other entities to see if you feel safe including them.

Hope this helps!

Hi Bede,

Unfortunately, yes, there is some concern about odd, buggy merges whenever this multiple practitioner approach is taken, but, as Google allows it, you have good ground to stand upon if troubles arise. Mike Blumenthal says that Google is getting better about this, and I value his opinion highly.

One thing to be sure of is that you are using totally different categories for the two different Google Places/+ Local listings. In other words, the categories of the doctor must be different than the categories of the practice.

Hope this helps! Good luck, Bede.

Hi Bede,

So, because of this from the Google Places Quality Guidelines:

Individual practitioners may be listed individually as long as those practitioners are public-facing within their parent organization. Common examples of such practitioners are doctors, dentists, lawyers, and real estate agents. The practitioner should be directly contactable at the verified location during stated hours. A practitioner should not have multiple listings to cover all of his or her specializations.

...essentially, what you are dealing with is 2 listings: one of the doctor's name and one for the practice name. There isn't a way (that I know of) to combine them all into one, but as Google allows you to have the separate listings, then basically, a client like this has 2 ranking opportunities, 2 citation building opportunities, etc.

Does this make sense, or am I not getting to the heart of your question? Please, let me know.