Predicting Time For Results

[davidoff574444]

Hi Mozzers.

My company uses an SEO agency. They are building links from relevant sites but, since hiring them around 9 months ago our SERPs for our important search terms have remained pretty static (dropping slightly).

I'm in charge of my company's marketing budget so need to make decisions about ROI when determining where best to invest my resources.

It seems to me that it ought to be possible to predict (with a fair degree of accuracy) how long it's likely to take us to move up the SERPs based upon an analysis of our website, link profile and how it's changing over time vs those of our competitors. Unfortunately my SEO agency keeps dodging this question.

• Am I being unreasonable in expecting this?
• Is what I've described above even possible?
• If it is possible what are the factors you would consider when trying to make such a prediction?

Thanks for your help

David

[davidoff574444]

Thanks for your advice Bryan, extremely helpful.

[Bryan_Loconto]

Hi David,

These terms are pretty challenging, but should not take 9 month to see some results. It would be wise to start off with less competitive terms.

Your link profile looks ok, not too many high quality links that drive relevant users, though...

I would push to get that blog up, having a blog on your site will give users a reason to link to you, fresh content to get indexed by search engines, and articles to share in communities around the web.

Without a blog it will be extremely challenging to rank for terms like these unless your business is very active in the community and you have established some great connections with relative authoritative figures.

The site looks good and the onsite checks out, I would recommend forcing the non www to the www or vice versa.

Also add social media sites to it, Google + is huge for tech, you can create articles and share them in relevant communities to gain relevant traffic, links and authority on the web.

The goal is not to build links on other sites, the goal is to give other sites a reason to link to you, other user to share your data, bookmark it and boast about you.

I am not sure about this company you are using and what you are paying them, but in 9 month with a company, they should of STRESSED social media, a blog, and updates on your business in case of a good PR opportunity.

Hope this helps.

[davidoff574444]

Thanks for everyone's responses, I've been blown away by how generous you've all been with your time. As a few people have raised the same points I've added a bit more information below:

• URL is www.octopus-hr.co.uk
• Search Terms are things like "HR Software" "HR System"
• I have regular catch ups with my agency about the work they've been doing, what links they've built etc. The trouble is that they just aren't able to give an accurate estimate on when we'll move into top 3 position for these 2 phrases.
• We don't currently have a blog although we are launching one in September (just building up a bank of content to use at the moment).

Anyway, thanks again everyone.

[Bryan_Loconto]

Jesse you said what I quoted, you should own it. I don't personally like being falsely accused of things, and I believe you and your buddy John have clearly bashed a company that you do not have any information about.

You keep accusing me of misreading, FYI I am reading everything.

Now tell me, **where does David mention a lack of communication? **

Wish you all the best of luck.

[jesse-landry]

oh boy.. okay this is getting silly. You still aren't understanding my posts like others and myself are.

What I said and was saying there was that somebody could provide the answer of whether or not the keywords were going to be difficult to rank for and what steps would need to be taken to tackle the project. Never in that quote did I say we could have you ranking for whatever keyword in a matter of hours or months. Simply we could tell you what's up, why it's difficult, how difficult it is, what we would do to try to target it, etc.

I said this multiple times now and have yet to say what you are accusing me of saying. This conversation is going nowhere as you keep asserting an argument that is non-existent. I am "jumping the gun" on the SEO company BASED on the facts he has told us - The only thing I've jumped on is the fact that they haven't communicated with him at all. (this is what we know based on the facts presented.) My point was, a good SEO company should be conversing with the client, explaining why there isn't much improvement and relaying the information of what they have been doing to work towards the goal. Thus, the transparency.

Sheesh. If they are "legit" and he "bashed them without real data" it is because they haven't provided any real data, thus becoming their fault.

There's truly no reason to defend this ghost company, it's not like they've been named here.

[Bryan_Loconto]

He said "They are building links from relevant sites" my point is don't jump the gun on the SEO company until you have some facts.

I can say that for the most part 9 month is a long time but you never know the scenario. Maybe the client is only paying $300 a month for link building and he is expecting miracles.

Like I said in my original post, there are too many factors to tell. The company might be legit, and if they are you just bashed them without any real data.

[Bryan_Loconto]

"If somebody on this forum could provide that answer within a few hours, your SEO firm should most definitely be able to do this within 9 months." Your words, the answers to these questions would only lead us to the real answer. You are assuming it's an easy niche.

[jesse-landry]

Haha.. Bryan - You aren't quite reading and comprehending what I'm saying here. Let me quote a post I made about 45 minutes ago:

"Nowhere in my post did I say I could put together a plan to definitely provide results in 9 months, Bryan."

to which you replied "it would be nearly impossible to rank them "top 3" doing true white-hat SEO in a period of 9 months."

...so your argument is kind of confusing, seeing as how nobody is taking the stance you are opposing.

TL;DR - WE ALL AGREE WITH YOU DUDE! That's not what we are talking about.

"EVERY business should be transparent with its clients/consumers."

Exactly! Now THAT is what we are talking about!

[Johnny4B]

Bryan

With the greatest of respect, and without at all seem like I am having a pop at you, I think you are missing the point.

No one is doubting that some work may take a lot longer than 9 months, two years ,whatever the time span may be. Yes some terms may take a lot longer work. For all we know, whoever is conducting the work on behalf of his firm could be doing  a stellar job, but the client does not seem to think so. Why you may ask, because they arent being transparent and demonstrating what they are doing

But from reading what the OP said, he has seen no results, actually the opposite, a decline in the SERP for his main keywords, furthermore, he has got no explanation why and his agency are refusing to give him answers.

If this does not set of alarm bells, I don't know what does. No communication whilst the client continues to pay for a service in their perceived eyes is not working.

I mean the guy is on here questioning his scenario ,why is he not getting the answers of the company he paying to carry out the work

For all we know, he could be trying to rank for not competitive  terms ,with little competition and paying month out month in with nothing to show but a stack of invoices

Regards

John

[Bryan_Loconto]

Well IMO that is false. Some terms just take longer to rank than others (depending on the competitiveness of course).

Let me give you a scenario....

Take a very competitive niche that every term has an organic score of 70+ when run through the SEOMoz organic KW tool.

Unless this client is "Bill Gates" (with deep deep pockets) and has very strong connections with extremely authoritative brands on the web (which is typically NOT the case), it would be nearly impossible to rank them "top 3" doing true white-hat SEO in a period of 9 months.

I am not referencing "transparency" between clients and SEO's as EVERY business should be transparent with its clients/consumers.

[Johnny4B]

Well said Jesse, without trying to blow smoke ....

[jesse-landry]

TL;DR - 9 months is a long time to not show results or work effort. Silence is the enemy, here.

[jesse-landry]

Perhaps not but I would at least be open about what exactly it is I'm doing and what I think needs to be done.

I also would have told him going into the agreement where he should set his expectations based on keyword targeting and my experience. I would submit monthly reports with what we have done to promote his site as I should be tracking this anyway. Transparency is the name of the game here. SEO is such a complicated task and we all know that it is not necessarily something you will see results with instantly. Therefore the only way to prove your worth is remain transparent to your client.

Also, if a client came to me from Joe's Insurance Shack and said "I want to rank page 1 for the keyword 'insurance'" I'd let them know how realistic that is right off the bat.

Nowhere in my post did I say I could put together a plan to definitely provide results in 9 months, Bryan. What I did say was "I could tell you how hard it will be to see results and tell you what steps I would take and am taking to seek said resutls," which is something these people don't seem to be doing.

[Bryan_Loconto]

So if his term is "insurance" you guys can develop a plan for ranking in 9 month? IMO its all about the competitiveness and the best angle to approach it. However, some keywords can take much longer to rank for... Such as "insurance" very broad and very competitive.

[jesse-landry]

Yeah everybody is right here but I think John is spot on. Here's the thing: If you gave us your domain and target keywords we could quickly tell you how hard it will be to see results and in a matter of time (within the day) we would determine what steps were needed to start seeing positive results.

If somebody on this forum could provide that answer within a few hours, your SEO firm should most definitely be able to do this within 9 months. I'd demand answers, reports, findings, strategies, and a conference ASAP. These questions that Brad and Bryan are asking are perfect questions that a good SEO guy would ask and SHOULD be able to answer (within a reasonable margin of error as SEO is not a perfect science.) But at least they should be showing effort, knowledge, and experience delivering these results/findings.

That's my humble opinion.

[Johnny4B]

Regardless of all the above David, 9 months with little or no results, and avoiding explaining why is worrying.

Its all well and good some "agency" creating content, blogs, working on social media  etc etc, I am sure most companies could ask a receptionist to do that, if they are not showing any progress ,and avoiding answering why, after nine months you are within your right as a customer to question why ?

As I have said, if they comeback with a reasonable explanation why, demonstrate some sort of progress .. or indeed not even progress, but meet the expectations they set out with their clients initally .. .and they meet with the clients satisfaction ... then fair enough

I hear all too often of people paying hand over fist for SEO services that fail to produce results ... without little or no explanation why !

[bradwayland]

David,

I'd like to know more about your situation.  First off, I think it great that you joined this forum to ask the question.  There are few things that would be a better use of your time than trying to understand SEO better and how it is affecting your business.  Hiring SEO consultants without a strong foundation can lead to alot of frustration and a lot of wasted money.

I've been in the SEO game a long time and I still don't pretend to be able to predict how the SERPS will react.  Instead of focusing on the results in SERPs I would encourage you to find other metrics (which you may have already done) that can tell if you are making progress.  Some of the metrics I like to focus on are

How is my domain authority changing over time?  If they are building links then this number should be going up.

Are my linking root domains going up?  If they are and you feel like the quality of the external links they are earning is good then this is a positive sign.

Are my unique c blocks going up?  This is one of the hardest things for anyone to game so if this number is climbing that is a good sign.

On one hand, I think your firm should be giving you metrics like the ones above to show progress.  On the other hand, I believe as a high level evaluator of what they are doing you should consider refining your knowledge to a point where you feel you can determine whether or not their efforts are working.

Finally, I think the last thing that will change positively for you are the SERPs.  It always takes longer and comes in more unpredictably than any of us can hope.  It makes sense when you consider that we are in the business of reacting to algorithm changes.  We have no ability to be proactive except the few occasions when Google and others come out and tell us something that is going on.

Feel free to email me if you have further questions.

[Bryan_Loconto]

Hi David,

This can be for many reasons.. However, without your domain it will be very difficult to do any real research.

There are about 200 ranking factors search engines use to rank a site, and link building is just one factor.

Do you have Google Analytics Set up? If so you can use this tool to see if you have had any traffic, and if it came from a brand search or an organic search.

Has the company done any onsite SEO?

Do you have a blog with fresh content?

Do you have any social media presence?

Do you have a natural looking link profile?

Are you over optimizing?

Also, what niche is it? Are the competitors very active?

9 month is a long time with no results, but some markets are very very competitive and will take longer to see results for top keywords. However they should have been targeting the low hanging fruit, long tail terms first to build authority and test what users like.

If you want to rank for "backpack"

You can not just build links to a backpack page it looks unnatural and does not add too much value.

What we would do is build pages for: "Where can I find a good backpack?" ; " Best Backpacks" ; "Blue Backpacks" ; " Vintage Backpacks" etc...

By gaining traffic you are also gaining more linking and domain authority.

[Johnny4B]

9 months is a long time to see results, granted it depends on what those results are

Did your agency not give you some sort of objectives and plans, can they demonstrate that they are indeed doing the work. Can they explain progress as of yet ...

I mean, with any of our clients, we show them detailed reports of work, measured against expectancy .... After nine months I would expect to see some results ...and if not ,why not.

Yes SEO can take time, but nine months with little or no results, and further more little or no explanation why is a little worrying

Remember you are the customer ,you are paying these guys for a service, you should expect answers why you aren't getting results, if they are reasonable answers why they aren’t getting results, fair enough, if they aren’t reasonable, you are within your right to question their skillset

I can also add, I don’t think one of our clients would pay us if after nine months we should little or no progress and we weren’t able to offer a reasonable explanation why we aren’t achieving some progress