Why are my Local Results so terrible. Seriously any help!

[jonnyholt]

deleted for privacy.

[jonnyholt]

Id like to open this discussion back up.  About a month ago, I made some changes to the Google+ profile and the client has agreed to change the address away from the PakMail in hopes of better results.

The Google Plus Local and Google Places accounts have merged yet still when searching Maps for austin wedding photographer she is on page 9.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=austin+wedding+photographer&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&channel=np&ie=UTF-8&ei=u0cuUtzePJKO2gW494DwBA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg

Anyone see anything else really wrong with the profile?

https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/114370561649922317296/114370561649922317296/posts

[MiriamEllis]

Hi HippieChick,

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you saying your legal business name has the word Austin in it? If so, how exactly do you feel this might hurt you?

Or, are you saying your legal business name doesn't have the word Austin in it but that you've added it to the business description field of your local business listings? If this is the case, then that is not allowed and is, in particular, a violation of the Google Places Quality Guidelines.

Please, feel free to provide a further explanation of your scenario and concerns.

[ChickChick]

What if your business actually has "Austin" in the name of the business?  My business does.  Would that hurt me on Local?

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Jonathan,

Unfortunately, Google just works this way and is unlikely to change. Sorry the client doesn't feel she can take advantage of Local SEO. If she is dead set against using but hiding her home address, her alternative would be to rent a real small office from a company like ActivSpace.com so that she can become a competitor for her important search phrases. Without being able to compete Locally, she is unlikely to get the business she no doubt is hoping for. Too bad!

[jonnyholt]

The client never wants her home address to be listed any (even if is hidden) so I guess I will just continue to work on her website SEO and we can forget the Local part (which is what I wish all these other photographers who don't actually have studios or storefronts would do.)

There is just too much risk in knowing that people could know where she lives also knowing that she owns and uses expensive camera gear.  Thank you endlessly for your very detailed posts but I can't find a solid solution for this problem.  Google just needs to realize that there are fields where the map shouldn't show up.  I could see "Photos" being listed before the map.

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Jonathan,

What needs to happen here is that the photographer stops using a prohibited address on any of her profiles or website. Use of a P.O. box, Pak Mail address is against the guidelines.

Instead, she should be using her home address, but hiding it. She doesn't have to put it on her website and she can stick to listing herself in indexes and directories that allow the business to hide their address. In other words, she'll be inputting her address as she creates her profiles, but she'll be selecting the option to keep the address un-published. Happily, a ton of indexes/directories allow this type of listing. Here are 2 pieces by Phil Rozek listing places where you can submit your business but hide your address:

http://www.localvisibilitysystem.com/2012/08/13/can-you-rank-well-in-local-google-without-revealing-your-street-address-anywhere/

http://www.localvisibilitysystem.com/2013/04/22/private-local-citations-where-can-you-list-your-business-but-hide-your-address/

So, the steps I would take would be:

1. Tell the client that you made a mistake. Her company's welfare comes first and telling her like it is will be so helpful to her, even if it's a little embarrassing for you. Better late than never, right? And as you haven't charged her, she can't really be put out if free advice was wrong.

2. If you want to, tell her you'd like a chance to remedy the mistake, for free.

3. Sit down together and read Google's Places Quality Guidelines. Explain to her what I've just explained to you about using but hiding her home address. Privacy concerns are very real, so she should be happy to learn that it's possible to get listed but keep her address private.

4. Remove any reference to the taboo address from her website, blog, Social Media profiles or what have you.

5. Engage in a cleanup campaign hitting every local business listing that exists for her that references the forbidden address. Edit the listings to list but hide her home address. Continue to check the ecosystem over the coming months to be sure the bad address doesn't surface again on its own.

6. Be sure you are adhering to Google's guidelines in every respect from here on out.

This is a positive and pro-active approach you can take with the business owner that should eventually lead to better outcomes.

[LindaBuquet]

Yes the service area is set right AND that's why Google already automatically hid the address and it no longer shows live.

However hiding address does not get around the other violation. The address in dash must still be 'REAL'.

Business Location: Use a precise, accurate address to describe your business location.

• Do not create a listing or place your pin marker at a location where the business does not physically exist. P.O. Boxes are not considered accurate physical locations.

Note: when you change address you'll likely need to reverify, she'll likely have to start over in the 6 - 8 week ranking cycle and will possibly lose reviews. Same thing with correcting the name when you do that.

So re-doing to make this right can cause some problems which is why Miriam and both stress learning all the ins and outs so you can do it right the 1st time. Because Google is not very forgiving about making changes. But this is how we learn right? (Taking hard knocks and having to re-do stuff.)

[jonnyholt]

See in this screen shot how I have UNchecked that customers come to the business location?  That should mean that I'm telling customers not to drive across town to the Pak N Mail correct?

places_settings.jpg

[jonnyholt]

Thank you both for your response.  I understand better what you are saying and appreciate it greatly.  I certainly have not charged her for the Local management as Local was not part of our contract and would hate to go to her now and let her know that I have done something for which she now needs to pay to fix.

With that being said, I do have a very important question taking into consideration what you have explained.  There are some options within the settings for a listing that offers service at someones house, for instance a yard man, or house maid, etc.  The business address is the Pak N Mail address with the Ste. number and box number.  I also understand that Google probably shouldn't be showing a map for a term like wedding photographer as most of them don't have studios and perhaps in that case the map should only be listed for "photography studio" or the like but alas this is what we deal with...

Thoughts?  I want to do this correctly and acknowledge that you ladies really know what you are talking about.

[LindaBuquet]

Thanks Miriam!

One more thing I wanted to mention. The guidelines purposely do not spell everything out. They are VERY vague for a reason... so as not to give spammers and scammers an exact road map of what to avoid. But folks like Miriam and I, that help folks in the trenches after they have already gotten in trouble, often know about unwritten rules or where the line is drawn on vague guidelines.

I often ask Google management too where the real line is drawn or what a subtle guideline really means. Often the reality is very black and white, it's just written in a pale shade of gray.

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Jonathan,

Ugh...yes, my firm gets daily emails offering SEO services, too. Such a pain, and I totally respect your position that you want to learn to do this yourself rather than rely on someone else. My take on this is that if this were your own business you were marketing, then experimentation of the kind you are doing would be a great way to learn.

Clients are different, however. I don't believe in taking risks for clients or enter into contracts for services that I don't yet have the expertise to provide with success.

For example, my firm does website design, copywriting, Local SEO and consultation. These are the services we offer and charge for. We do not do PPC, Social Media, linkbuilding and many other forms of marketing. I have no expertise in these areas and can't take on clients who need these things - so I refer these business owners to trustworthy colleagues who are specialists in these areas. I can't do it all in-house! My firm is small, and my main goal is that any business owner who contacts me is matched up with the best possible person who will know how to utilize funding wisely, do great work and avoid any type of penalties. That person may not be me every time.

What I am seeing is that you are in a learning phase with Local SEO right now. That is a great place to be, but it may not be a great platform from which to be offering client services because even small mistakes in Local can be so far-reaching for the client. Local is very unforgiving when it comes to mistakes, given the way a single error can be replicated via data feeds across the web.

I'm glad you'll follow through on the links I've shared with you. They are great learning resources, and don't overlook the Google Places Quality Guidelines. Every Local SEO needs to know these like the backs of their hands because they are the foundation of every Local campaign. I sincerely hope that you don't feel like you're being clobbered on this thread. From the title of your post, "Why are my local results so terrible," I think you've made an important start to diagnosing the answer to your question. You simply have some more learning to do before you can provide Local SEO services with confidence and success, I believe, and recognizing this may be a truly empowering step in the growth of your business. I am wishing you a ton of fun and good luck ahead in the learning process!

[MiriamEllis]

That's right, Linda. We can find exceptions to Google's rules all day long and violations can go unpunished for years, but once they are caught, they are really caught. You have done an excellent job here of trying to save a fellow member from feeling the pain of a Google penalty. I'm marking your response as a good answer.

[LindaBuquet]

Hi Jonathan,

I help SEOs all day long that broke the rules and got caught and their client pays the price. Some fight for months to get their listing back, so I am a bit of a purist about the rules because I know the damage breaking them can do.

UPS or Pak Mail type addresses are prohibited and not considered by Google a "real" business location.  Does not matter if she meets clients there.

Here is Google's thinking. (And I work with upper management with Google on a daily basis on cases like this, so I know for a fact.) If someone found her on a map, drove across town, walked into the Pak Mail would she be there?

Also does not matter if address is hidden. Google still sees address in dashboard. They can find out it's at Pak Mail just like I did (http://goo.gl/maps/Ikmu3) and then the listing is toast as mailing addresses are not allowed period.

Does not matter if people online that claim to be experts SAY it's OK to do add city or KW to name or if competitors show their address.

It's like if I told you "it's OK to park in that no parking zone - I do it all the time!"

IF YOU are the UNLUCKY ONE to get CAUGHT - neither the cop or Google will accept the excuse that "others do it and get away with it" OR "some blogger told me it was OK to do it."

Photogs are under high scrutiny so sometimes Google does an industry sweep of a city looking for violations. IF they catch that mailing address or KW stuffed name, you could be in trouble. And if they catch the competitors showing their address, they could be too.

[jonnyholt]

Miriam,

I have people contact me daily wanting to guarantee me placement on the map... I am a SEO and would much rather learn about the topic than just pay someone else to tell me their opinion.

Thank you for the links, I will definitely check into those.

[jonnyholt]

Linda,

Thank you for the input.  If you google "austin wedding photographer" you will likely see 2+ listings with the word "Austin" in the listing, leading me to believe perhaps they aren't as strict on that anymore?  Also in a number of highly regarded Local SEO articles, I had read adding the full keyword string can help.  I am trying to change the name back to just photojennette but Google says I must wait a period of time before changing.

Next, the address is not a home address.  Yes she does most of her work at her house but the address is actually a business where she can meet clients and is an actual storefront.  It's a mail service with a coffee shop where she consults with clients.  Again, if you look what google is actually showing for the term, you will see that almost all of the photographers listed have home addresses showing for the businesses.  (you are likely not from Austin, but I am and I know the addresses are their homes which I think is really dumb because they are publicly telling people where they live.)

I am a patterns person.  If I saw a pattern that seemed to support your statement besides the fact that my clients listing isn't at the top, I would definitely agree with your comments but they simply don't apply to what I am seeing Google place at the top of the results.

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Jonathan,

My best recommendation here is going to be that you advise the client to hire a professional Local SEO to consult with both you and her about Local Search Marketing. Because of the number of violations you have accidentally made in trying to help this client, I am assuming that you were hired in some other capacity (perhaps as her designer or traditional SEO or SM expert?) and that you are finding that you've waded in over your head trying to manage her Local SEO. I would recommend that you tell her so as quickly as possible, and don't let her expect that you can consult with her in areas that are not your specialty. It's just too easy to accidentally violate Google's guidelines and damage a client's ability to rank well if Local isn't your area of expertise. If this client is counting on you for advice, I would take the following steps:

1. Tell her that, while you can help her with certain services you've engaged to provide, you are not a Local SEO.

2. Go with her to https://getlisted.org/static/resources/trustedproviders.html. This is GetListed.org's list of trusted providers in the Local SEO field. Both you and she can visit the websites of the terrific companies listed there and contact a few of them to see what they can offer you. They will quickly be able to discern (like Linda Buquet has on this thread) that there a number of violations going on that are putting your client at risk for penalties and will be able to consult with you on damage control and creating a good local search marketing strategy.

3. If you have interest in Local SEO (which is a totally fascinating field!) and see that you have clients coming in these days who need help with this, you may want to consider studying this area of marketing so that you can eventually add Local SEO to your menu of client services. This is a truly fun and challenging discipline that anyone can dive into and learn a ton about. Here is a list of resources for you of places to learn about Local SEO;

This is my own article on The Rudiments of Local SEO which I share with new clients.

This is the blog of the man I (and most people) consider to be the top Local SEO in the world: Mike Blumenthal

At DavidMihm.com you will find published the annual Local Search Ranking Factors report. This is the premiere industry survey and the 2013 edition will be published within the next few weeks.

And here is Linda Buquet's highly active and educational Local Search Forum where you can learn a ton.

That's a good start. There is always room for another awesome new Local SEO - so many businesses need guidance! In the meantime, though, I do suggest that you get your client connected with an established pro ASAP to help get things under control and point both you and the client in the right direction.

[LindaBuquet]

Wanted to let you know you have major violations that could get you suspended. So you may be suffering from a ranking penalty.

Your listing says your business name is "austin's photojennette wedding photography". You can't add city or keywords to your name. Must be name only.

Also Google hid your address due to being a home business. In the past instead of hiding your address they would just delete your listing for violating that guideline, so this is better. Hidden address does not hurt your ranking.

[Robert_G]

In these articles you'll find some answers and tips:

1. http://moz.com/blog/40-important-local-search-questions-answered
2. http://moz.com/community/q/google-s-local-search-results-for-broad-keywords
3. http://moz.com/blog/evolution-of-the-local-algorithm-whiteboard-friday

You might want to include your website in local directories.

Also, You could Capitalise your website's title first word, it looks like keyword staffing right now.

Hope it helps,

Cheers.