Has Anyone Used CBS Local Pages?

[qlkasdjfw]

CBS has a service that they offer to their advertisers called CBS Local Pages. Has anyone used this? It's about $1500 a month and basically they send "business data" to local listing platforms, this is similar to UBL and LocalEZE it seems.

One of my associates subscribed to this and they're unsure of the value, they are paying $1500/mo for something that can be achieved with $125/year with localeze.

Has anyone used this?

[WestAdvertising]

I just got off of another long call with the CBS rep and in a nutshell, I finally understand what they do.

They take over your adwords campaign and buy a unique URL (an example of the type of URL is joesplumbingserviceoaklandca.com). Then they craft a two page website that provides a phone number as a means of contacting the business. No email, no form. The website gets indexed by Google and will beat out your real website if someone searches that exact URL phrase. In Joe the plumber's case, that long-tail domain URL is a valid search term someone would use. So if someone finds the CBS site organically and calls the number, the client gets charged. Also, the link on the CBS page pointing to the main website goes to a mirrored site at a different URL than the actual business URL and the phone number on that is a tracking number as well.

They asked me to run a test with them to see if it works. I said, I am not going to take a $8000 test with you because if it doesn't work then it is me on the hook for recommending this product. They said if it doesn't work they will throw in $8000 worth of radio advertising and banner display ads. But they wouldn't tell me where.

I asked if we could do a 1-month trial or even a 2-month trial and they said no. 6 months is needed for the campaign to ramp up.

I asked for a reference of a client that is happy with the product. I got a 5 minute explanation of how advertisers would not want to discuss their plans with anyone else and that I should trust them that everyone is satisfied. So I pressed again and said, "If this product was so amazing and I had a huge ROI and you called me and asked me to speak to a potential advertiser to vouch for your product, I would do it in a heart beat." They replied by saying they would try and find someone.

Oh and they said they are not selling this product to make millions, they are just trying to solidify their relationship with our agency. It was all about the sale and it became more and more obvious by the end. I think they could feel my disdain through the phone.

Sorry, that wasn't a nutshell.

Anyone know anything about ringrevenue.com?

[MiriamEllis]

At risk of stating the obvious here, guys, I will just add a word of caution. The mention of 'phone numbers' is what is standing out as most concerning to me. I could be wrong about this, but if a company is tracking how many calls are coming to a business, my bet would be that they would be using a call tracking number - which is an absolute no-no in Local. This, alone, would turn me off of any service and would be the first thing I would want to know about in any type of pay-per-call service.

Thanks, Eric, for digging up this thread and adding to it. And Robert, thanks for making me think of a drunken donkey in a china shop. Quite a vivid picture! Your caution is well-placed.

[WestAdvertising]

Thanks Robert.

Let me clarify that the places page I am referring to is the "free" CBS Local places page that they will create and optimize if you sign up for the pay per call program. This has nothing to do with the Google Places page.

But yes, all in all, I am very skeptical of everything they say. I like the idea of pay per call, especially for business that thrive on getting people on the phone, but I don't think I'll be recommending CBS Local to drive calls. Especially when they kept coming back to the fact that they guarantee a certain number of calls. They kept using that word "guarantee" - like the whole purpose is to get someone to dial the phone. After 10 seconds, if you don't sell a car, it's the dealer's fault, not the quality of the call. Oh and you get charged if the answering machine picks up and they don't leave a message.

They talked a great game and got past our account director (who forwarded this program to me so I could look into it), but the minute they begin talking to anyone who understands search engine marketing, they are going to be outmatched and the curtain will be lifted.

I will definitely read that Yext article.

Thanks for the response!

[RobertFisher]

Eric,

I will say that my opinion on this type service has changed, it is worse. The more I see the more I shake my head. I came to SEO through lead gen. So, I know this subject better than many. First, one thing you say should strike terror in your heart: "they explained that the places page is geared toward driving calls." Under NO circumstance would I ever allow a company like this (or any company that did not have a Local SEO expert on hand that I could question) to touch a client or company places account. The damage a drunken donkey can do in a china shop is nothing compared to the damage the uninitiated/uninformed/uneducated etc. can do to Local. They can even be truly well-meaning and create a disaster. Read above where I talk about the RE agent. Go look at what Mike Blumenthal talks about around Yext and leaving their service, etc. These clowns  misguided souls are in it for them, not for the client.

For a telephone lead that lasts 10 seconds, I would love to see one real dealer (new car) who would pay them for that. I do NOT believe it for a second and, yes, I have worked with people in the auto industry and will not name drop. They are on some substance that allows them to go ask Alice if they believe some of the toughest people in the world would accept a ten second call as the only qualifier for a $36 lead.

I think your caution and concern alone earns you a thumbs up or seven.

Best,

Robert

[WestAdvertising]

I know this is a year and half later, but I wanted to chime in as I found this thread while trying to learn about this topic. I was asked to vet this vendor for a client of mine, specifically around the Pay-Per-Call Advertising program with CBS Local and what I am finding is a tad disconcerting.

I just got off the phone with two reps and they explained that the places page is geared toward driving calls. According to them, they create a page that is optimized to rank in search engines. I found that very hard to believe seeing as the competition for the first page is intense for my client and I don't know how they would show up organically in the major search engines. THis leads me to believe that the calls are coming from other, less qualified sources...

They white label the software from Marchex. For the auto industry they are charging $36 per call. And they are asking for a 6 month contract where we determine how many calls we are willing to pay for. They charge the client if the call lasts longer than 10 seconds.

I was instantly skeptical when the rep said they bid on organic placement. Huh? I called him on it and said, you can't pay the search engine to be no. 1. Then he went on to explain that he was originally a radio and broadcast rep and is new to the digital world and he might have misstated how it all works. He just kept using the words "back-end developers" and "optimization", but I don't think he understood what he was saying.

The reps also discussed where "bid on links" to the local page. Places like citysearch and citymedia - pretty much ghost towns. They said they work with Google, Yahoo and Bing as well, but pretty much blew them off as not the only place to get leads.

Basically, this is an ad program that guarantees a certain number of calls regardless of their quality.

[RobertFisher]

That is quite interesting. I looked at Detroit, San Francisco, and Philadelphia and all had issues when going to the site:

directory.detroit.cbslocal.com

directory.sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com

directory.philadelphia.cbslocal.com/

On the directory pages the directory has somehow been superimposed over their home page and is not navigable. When you click on a business most have no info. So, to me that is a huge red flag.

At $1500 per month one must ask what do you get. If you could provide us any of those details that would be great. As it stands, if you are talking about a basic local business site without too many bells and whistles, I just cannot justify it based on the info in hand. Even if they optimize unbelievably for 20 directories and the 3 search engines, what do they continue to do to earn $1500 per month? 
Obviously, for your associate, if he is spending the $1500 and his traffic is doubled through these sources and his revenue is up above the cost and ancillaries such that it is making him additional profit, then that is a value question only he can answer.
When all my marketing was my own money (before I was an agency), I never wanted to break even or make 2 times the ad spend as it was not profitable given other expenses to create the revenue. At three and four to one that was getting the sweet spot.

So, he will have to decide for himself. I do think you have shined a light on a smelly subject that we are seeing more and more of with (old) media companies. As they try to move their model into something that can be preserved, they are stepping into an arena for which they do not possess the requisite skillset or experience. In fact into an arena they fought from the beginning. Look at Yellow Pages, etc. They are still delivering phone books that no one wants as the model still makes money.....by adding the "value add" of SEO.

So, its just an opinion, but I would pass on the deal given all I know to now.

Best to you and your associate.

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Again Qlk,

So, this does sound like a bundled deal with a variety of services. Not knowing what these services in the local campaign specifically are, it's not possible to say whether they are of high or low value.

None of the other Local SEOs I queried commented with any knowledge of CBS' local pages.

I think your associate should have a talk with the CBS rep who sold them to this so that they are absolutely clear on what they are paying so much money for.

Miriam

[qlkasdjfw]

The $1500 is JUST for their local search program. It's bundled with everything, but basically the $1500 per month is just for this.

[MiriamEllis]

Robert,

It's very good to have your opinion on this, based on your experience, though as you say, not with this particular entity. The bottom line of this kind of deal is whether it is actually generating business for the business owner, of course, and if the QLKASDJFW's associate is left wondering whether there is any value in it, I would begin to suspect that they aren't seeing an obvious benefit.

I have put a question out to a number of my colleagues and so far have gotten one response...the person who responded (an excellent Local SEO) had not heard of this service either, and like you, Robert, he wondered about the value-added component.

I will certainly follow up if I receive more responses. Glad you liked the SEL link. That was a terrific piece. Hope you are having a nice weekend.
Miriam

[RobertFisher]

Miriam,

This is the issue with most of these that makes it so difficult on the business. They are almost always tied to additional media. IMO, it is run these commercials (that you would not normally run because...) and get the added value of the local SEO. The problem we see is there is always some catch - they want access to the local accounts, links to them get put in, etc. Again, I have not dealt with CBS yet, but this is what we see with the others. 
Remember, when they say free and added value and you complain it isn't any good.... Well, its just a free added value (and the main reason the business did the spend to start with).

BTW, good link to Anderson's piece.

Best

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Again QLKASDJFW,

Quick question...are you sure your friend's monthly fee isn't including something like TV advertising, a radio ad contract or other expensive features like that? I am really having trouble understanding the pricing if all it adds up to is a listing and directory submissions. Can you get us some more info from your friends about exactly what they fee includes? I'm very curious.

Miriam

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Again QLKASDJFW,

I had heard some talk at the end of 2011 regarding CBS ramping up a local program, such as this blog post by Peter Krasilovsky:

http://localonliner.com/2011/12/19/cbs-goes-deeper-with-local-content-via-examiner-com-deal/

I haven't had time to look into exactly what they are doing, but frankly, I am shocked by the price you were quoted. $1500? A month? I can't think of ANY service that would be worth a price tag like that, and exactly as you say, you can pay UBL or Localeze a fraction of that for automated local directory submission. I don't have all of the facts about what CBS is offering, so I'm going to decline to make a broad pronouncement on this, but the price tag alone has definitely made me say, "what the heck?" and I think reading Robert's story is a very good idea.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I can't find any documentation from any of the sources I commonly read either praising or condemning this offering. I do know it's not listed among the top 50 citations sources in Myles Anderson's 2011 Search Engine Land article:

http://searchengineland.com/top-50-citation-sources-for-uk-us-local-businesses-104938

I'm going to ask around amongst my colleagues on this and see if any of them has an educated opinion on CBS Local Pages to share.

Again, very good question, and Robert, thanks for sharing your frustrating story.

[RobertFisher]

OK, I had to check and it appears they are in most major cities. Here is a screen shot from a page in San Fran. I checked several and am posting SF because I have no clients there. Notice how there is a browser issue on the page. Also when I clicked on the business - First united credit union it took me to a featured directory page without that business. Soooo, hmmmm. Check it out.

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[RobertFisher]

qlkasdjfw

This is a sticky question that requires I go to my Zen place before writing. OK, I think I am there. 
Typically, with these type services (TV station, Radio, Newspapers, Yellow Pages, etc) They use the Internet SEO piece as a "value add" (I actually receive an email this week from a person with a low level of SEO knowledge not to mention business acumen where they tried to explain some of the SEO failures as this is a value add and was FREE!!!). So, It adds value unless it doesn't add value and that is why it is free.

Anyone can get you listed on a business directory ( we will set you up on ten for and the search engines for $1000 a month - just kidding). What I would suggest is this:

Ask precisely what you can expect in clear deliverables.

Make sure that if they say things like get you ranked on certain keywords you ask things like which keywords and where do they get them from. If they are charging that much, I would expect some quality keyword research from them. Do not give them access to your GA or FTP, etc. prior to knowing the facts and having seen their keyword research. 
These companies want a one year or more agreement. To me, and it is just my opinion, I do not like agreements like this at all. If they are that good, why can't they give you a 30 day out? If there are no early term deliverables like in depth keyword and competitive analysis, I would not do it personally. If they say we are getting you in these directories: say 10 and Google, Bing, and Yahoo they will have earned the first two months at most in my opinion.

Now HERE YOU NEED TO HEAR THIS: (caps for emphasis not yelling): If they are setting these up with their own account name (email address) and password and they want you to simply call them with the PIN codes that come in, you need to understand that they can put anything in the listing they want including having a link to their url. (Kinda helps them out). Be careful if what they do has an alternate number that rings to your business number for tracking purposes. If that number is in Places, etc, the calls could be from anywhere and they will get credit. I know they are CBS and they would never do anything like that..... I have never done business with them, but have seen enough others and am clear they do little SEO for the cost.

I have a real estate client who did something similar with a large well known media company recently. About 6 or 8 of their agents bought the package. They got an "optimized" landing page, and placed in a business listing,etc.. One of the agents is a direct client as well and she got an email that she would be getting the PIN cards and make sure she emailed the pin to them. She forwarded to me and I started looking. The landing page was set up with her name preceded by the realtor initials: XYZ - Suzy Agent. (Obviously no help to Suzy Agent). the site url was initially a dynamically generated one and then she got one almost as soon as I got the email about PINs. The url she got was around high end real estate. My first question was who owns it and where is it hosted - media company and at their offices. Of Course. As I looked over the landing page I started scratching my head and asked my client if she gave them information to put on page - no she did not.
I wrote the head of the RE section for this media company and they informed me that their SEO partner wrote it and that all content was unique and created by them and that the media staff checked everything over. What was funny was that the content was from a site we designed, developed, and copy wrote every sentence for. I know, because at that time I knew the agent very well and wrote the content myself. (The agent is my wife)

They took three or four keyword phrases and whenever they could fit them in a sentence, they did in bold. Their big SEO strategy was to just put keywords in the alt text and have a lot of images. So, instead of a pic of a home saying Beautiful stucco home in XYZ neighborhood on wonderful lane, it would say High end real estate realtor.

They put a video on the site of one of her properties and it has no alt text associated and has their name all over the video.

So, I stayed as Zen as I could. If I can help you just let me know. I would be happy to look at what they say they are supplying and tell you what you should ask, etc. No charge. It is a passion with me.

Good Luck.