Two google analytics accounts on one site.

[salemtas]

I've got a client who is using a third party for cpc ads, to track these we need to give the third party admin access to google analytics.  Being that we are seeing massive discrepancies in reported cpc ads and refunds etc.. have been offered, I can't trust that as an admin they won't delete the profile with all data proving reason for refund. Can we create a second google analytics account (not profile) to protect the data?

We want to give access to sensis to the new account so we can start seeing the cpc separation in traffic source from now while ensuring the existing account can't disappear.

[salemtas]

I'm pretty sure the client is ready to run away, I was an odd situation, we did their original website 7 ish years ago, before we offered any real online marketing.  So they were dazzled by the yp sales guys, signed up, then came back to us for a new website - there was much face palming at that point

The latest meeting was interesting, I can argue quite nicely too, I made the google 'expert' tantrum and storm out at the end, complete with door slam. I don't think he appreciated a young female with some fairly indisputable evidence putting him in his place and showing up his lack of knowledge.

On the openness of the actual accounts - they are stalling on giving us access even to the Sensis interface - no way are they going to show me what is actually happening with Yahoo or Google.  Part of the problem is that they send sales guys out to deal with the issue, they have no idea what they are talking about, and are used to dealing with customers who just accept the rubbish answers.  I don't even know if the guys I'm dealing with would understand what I was asking to see (didn't know analytics had a real time feature - it seems I programmed that myself to be tricky - I'm really awesome at programming and I didn't even know it!)

At the moment they have taken 2 days to look into the auto -tagging option???  The whole account management has been a mess from day 1, there are many more problems than just this. It isn't that I don't want them to see the analytics, and  I don't think they would delete stuff etc... purposefully, but it could happen.  There really looks like something has stuffed up and it only takes someone to go ' that shouldn't be here - delete profile' and its gone.  I wouldn't trust them with my account, so that is the same advice I'd give anyone else.

My initial question was mainly due to me being a bit stupid - they told me we'd need to upload extra code via ftp and I just thought - guess they have a different system to what I would do because their account management is different.  Then their email request asked to be linked to a generic sensis email, so mostly me not going back to basics.

[JasmineA]

You should ask for screen caps to show proof of the traffic.

Also, ask for CSV reports from the Ad Level so you can see where the Destination URL is going. These take about 5 minutes to pull from any PPC platform. compare with the date range they are telling you about.

Ask for even more screen caps. More physical proof from the account that they are sending this data to you

[RobertFisher]

I would be more than happy to show them that is BS. they won't listen because they are_____. Do they have a report showing a yahoo account with that domain and 698 clicks to a specific url? That is the question.

They are just so full of it you want to scream. Again, if you need help with any of this, call or PM and I am happy to get a dozen experts on board. (And I really argue well and quietly.)

Best

[salemtas]

Hi Robert,

Sorry mis-label by me - the traffic comes through as search.  we went through clicking on one of the ads to show the yp guys what happens and it appears in analytics as yahoo/search, but they denied that is what happened - in front of them.  They say cpc traffic doesn't appear in analytics AT ALL.  The referral traffic can be accounted for, except for a pile of dodgy looking directory sponsored links from a selection of directories under same ip addresses - yp say they have nothing to do with these and direct traffic can't account for this.  There just isn't enough traffic on the site as a whole to account for the reported clicks - 698 from Yahoo with just 17 showing up in analytics

[RobertFisher]

I have not heard of them deleting the data and see no reason for them to. Frankly, they don't keep any pertinent metrics, so what's to hide?

Best

[JasmineA]

I'm not saying that either of you are wrong to be a bit fearful. I can completely understand. But we need to keep a few things in mind here to put this in  perspective:

• YP has thousands of clients and no one has surfaced saying YP has deleted anything.

• You can push for them to sign an NDA or something similar saying that they will only be working inside a certain area of the account.

• They aren't a good company to do business with if they aren't trying to meet you half way on tagging and you need to take that back to your POC.

But really, the first point is that YP does do this for everyone, and they haven't screwed anyone over yet (we would all hear about it, haha).

[RobertFisher]

Amber

This just continues to bug me. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that there is something amiss here in what they are saying and I think you already know that. First, if an ad runs for a given company X and if the ad resolves to a landing page that is a part of that companies site that you are handling analytics for, then how could that traffic show as organic search traffic? If they are saying it shows as "search" traffic they are correct but stupid. Whether organic or paid, it is "search" traffic.

What is likely happening is this: their traffic is showing as referred traffic because of the way they do the spend. It may even be showing as direct but harder to show. I have attached a couple of screen shots for your perusal. Note in the first you see traffic from Yahoo, etc. Note that if this were organic Yahoo traffic, it would say Yahoo (organic).

Hope it helps,

Robert

gIVYHNn.png?1 J43d0u2.png?1

[RobertFisher]

Jasmine,

This is excellent. I totally zoned on giving them limited access.

[salemtas]

At the moment I don't need too much info, just want the ad traffic labelled as cpc as the traffic source.  I'm being told that the 700 odd clicks from Yahoo and Adwords cpc are blocked from analytics which is why I can't see the visits, they deny that it shows up as search traffic if not tagged - even though I showed them exactly what happens when you click on an ad in GA real time (the Google 'expert' told me there was no such thing as real time and I made it up!!!)

They haven't even responded to my request to turn on auto-tagging so asking for the accounts to be linked within a time frame is being a bit hopeful - not to mention they can delete the profile and all data justifying the refund within that time (that's the cynic in me as we've had that happen before  -not YP.

[salemtas]

Please let me know how the therapy goes

My latest website addition is about to be questions you need to ask your YP sales rep before signing anything.  Then offering to come and sit in on the sales meeting as an outside 'interpreter'.   Just wish my client had come to us first before signing on the dotted line cos this is so much extra work and hassle and surprise, surprise she's seen no new leads in months. But hey, this is what we do

[NakulGoyal]

I know, totally understand. Coming from where YP is, as you said, it makes complete sense.

[RobertFisher]

Nakul,

Your issue is that you are just too reasonable! YP oes not want the client to see what they are not doing and that is the reason for all the obfuscation. It is the classic pay us $XXXX per month and we will send you leads. Now, we won't tell you what keywords we bought, what the ad said, what the CPC was, etc. The reason is simple. When you are handling small accounts it is next to impossible to do real PPC at an agency fee of even 18% because, if the average account is $500 there is more work than the $90 commission. On big accounts with $5K plus spends it makes sense, but not small.

So they just obfuscate and BS their way through. Guess what, they are all EXPERTS at SEO at the YP companies (most are AT&T). I will say this, having dealt with the issues that anyone experiencing what Salemtas is going through who wants to have a meeting with them and the client should call me as this has become a cause. I will get on a teleconference into the meeting with the YP reps and let them question my credentials. It would be fun. (By the way, I am in therapy over this issue and hope to get it resolved in the coming decade ;)'

[JasmineA]

Good choice. Tagging is what I was going to suggest as well so you know if this is a profitable venture for you.

But to import the correct tags you are going to need to link the accounts, and that also doesn't take away the need for tracking within their AdWords account. I think it would be a good compromise to say "I'll give you Admin access today to link the accounts, but it shouldn't take more than 5 minutes so I'll grant it to you from noon to 5 today, but I need you to link it up before 5."

After they are linked, they don't need admin access to import the correct goals to track.

[salemtas]

Thanks Nakul and Robert,

Of course having a re-google around this morning I've found exactly what I'm looking for, re auto-tagging.  The moral of the story, don't let others lead you down an un-necessary path when the right answer is staring you in the face

[RobertFisher]

pm me.

[salemtas]

Agree, agree and agree.  These are all exactly the points I have raised with my client, unfortunately she has locked herself into a contract and if she decides try to terminate we need as much corroborating data to justify a breach of contract from their side.

Can you let me know how to link the Adwords for two separate accounts? I've searched around but can't seem to find out how to do it if I am not allowed into the yahoo adcentre or Adwords or they aren't admin of ga.

All the smoke and mirrors is beyond frustrating.  I know I'm right, but for the average business owner its just all too much.

Thanks

[RobertFisher]

salemtas

Nakul is providing reasonable guidance here, but I feel compelled to offer some myself. First and foremost _you are fighting the wrong battle. _(I am now going to my zen place before breaking my rule of being nice on this forum - nothing toward you or my friend Nakul, but those others you mentioned.)

The issue is not their ability to track or their need to touch analytics. I would not give them access at the admin level for analytics and they do not need it. You can link to the adwords from where you are using the GA you have. It is really quite simple. They are so full of roses and daffodils that you need to change the argument.

First, sit down with your client and ask them a few questions:

1. Is Yellow Pages going to provide spend data? Keyword lists? Ad Lists? Ad Group Lists? Cost per click? If not, (it would be a first if they did) tell the client the importance of that data. Otherwise you are unable to know reality and you are giving them $$$ to spend. Make a list of what is needed from them regarding the PPC spend.

2. Assuming your client is a local business, when they do the PPC for them is it ONLY FOR THEM? If they are directed to a YP site, with other similar businesses will that count as for your client or another YP client or do they plan to show that data to all of them as if they all got that click? 
   3. Again re local, are they going to use a different phone number for your client or the client's main number as listed in G+ or Places and on the site? If different, (and it will be) ask this: How do you plan on compensating for the damage to the current NAP? (Don't explain it these sweet children please, make them work.)

4. If you have any issues you need help with call someone who is on a mission to stomp out the irrelevant in the world, or you could PM someone, uhhh, think about it. There are those who really are wanting to help the world....

5. Lastly, please let anyone know that I never once said anyone was a scum eating bottom dweller and that I kept all clean and rated G.

Hope it helps,

Robert

[salemtas]

I've just heard that doing this could cause problems with analytics, so even though theoretically that should work, I'm just wondering if anyone has done this with no issues.

[NakulGoyal]

Considering all this, I would create a second GA account temporarily until you figure out and do what you need to. Should not be an issue. Do what you need to to clarify and confirm the situation as well as identify the problem.

[salemtas]

Based on the quite  aggressive meeting where I was told I had no idea what i was talking about when pointing out the 698 yahoo cpc clicks doesn't appear in analytics, that when i click on one of their ads myself, in their presence, and show them how it appears in  GA real time so that the traffic, even though it isn't labelled as cpc still shows up- their google 'expert' told me there was no such thing as google analytics real time, And that they are making it difficult to log in to the sensis interface, won't let me see the yahoo or Adwords accounts at all to sort out the missing traffic, nope they won't set up an open account.

This is why I'm thinking the only option is 2 accounts, but whether this causes an analytics problem / conflict I don't know

[NakulGoyal]

Can the YP/agency setup an Adwords sub-account for you guys to access ?

[salemtas]

Because it is yellow pages, we have no access to the Adwords account, so that would be the best solution but not possible.  Not a very open situation and one I wouldn't recommend but the client signed up for it before coming to us.

[NakulGoyal]

Can you not just login to the Adwords account and grant it (Adwords) access to analytics ? That should work and not physically grant access to somebody else..or a person access to your Analytics. Does that work ?

[salemtas]

They need to link the Adwords and analytics accounts in Adwords and the only way to do this according to Google is by being an administrator.  As in the example in the link, everywhere I've seen two different tracking codes, they are profiles within the one account and as far as I can see, adding an administrator to one profile automatically adds them to the other.  And I'm still left open for them to delete everything.

[NakulGoyal]

With what they are doing, can't they do with Read Only access ? Do they really need admin access ? If not, see this:

http://www.seomoz.org/q/tracking-sites-with-multiple-google-analytics-accounts