How much keyword density for Google?
-
I have several pages on one site which have gone down during the past few months. They keyword density on those pages, which is not unnatural, pleased Google for many years. it still pleases Bing. But Google now seems very picky.
Based upon your experience, what is the ideal % keyword density for 2 and 3 word phrases, and should they be left out of alt tags even when proper to put them there?
While Google dominates, we do not wish to alienate BIng/Yahoo.
It is a huge mystery, and experimentation with more non-keyword-related text has so far not born any fruit.
Thank you,
GH
-
I realize this is an old thread, but I came across it when looking for an answer to the question, "What is the ideal keyword density for SEO?" After reading several high-ranking pages on the subject (most of which did not or could not provide an answer), I came up with what I believe to be an answer: The ideal keyword density for a given web page is either: (1) one keyword less than what would cause a visitor of the page to form an opinion that the page is not a credible source of information for that keyword, or (2) one keyword less than what would cause Google to form an opinion that the page is not a credible source of information for that keyword.
Now, I'll leave it to someone better at math to calculate what exactly that number is.
-
It's amazing that everyone here has answers, but no data. If you're going to give an answer, back it up. User-readable? Yes. Documented by Google. No copy? Links only? Works for some sites like CNN, ToysRUs, Walmart that get picked up just because they're huge (observation). But for the majority of the little guys, content plays a role and it would be great to know if the data supports keyword density as still being applicable to G. Tools still measure it (SEOQuake). In natural language, it seems to make sense that a certain percentage of words, on average, are repeated. Google has made it clear that they are trying to master how language is actually used in the real world and providing results based on how humans communicate, not computers. Thus, more people focus, less computer focus. YET, we all know that computers still play a huge role in how SERPs choose winners. We just have to find the balance, right?
-
Thank you for the link, which is useful, but I was surprised to find many very code-heavy sites (14%) ranking at the top as well, even in the era of the "thin page" penalty. The factors and changes in algorithms used are simply overwhelming, so I guess my answer simply lies in making the best site possible and giving up on SEO considerations almost entirely.
-
I still consider keyword density as a litmus test for how I expect spiders to consider my pages. Even more important, but touching on the same concepts as keyword density, is the text-to-code ratio.
http://www.seochat.com/seo-tools/code-to-text-ratio/
And this is something I do spend time optimizing for. With all of the analytical scripts, forms, nestled navigation bars, etc, on a standard site, it's easy to become code-heavy and be penalized for it.
-
I agree with Tom. When it comes to keyword density, ask yourself if it comes off natural, then ask a friend to read the copy. Ask him or her, does it come off natural and would they accept this for copy on a website.
-
Thank you.
You are likely right that there are other off-page issues Google may be taking into account to penalize our white hat site, though they are a mystery to me, as our link profile is very strong according to SEOMOZ, especially compared to much larger competitors. We even have pages which once ranked in the top 5, and which SEOMOZ claims have a very high authority, which have disappeared completely from the Google index (for all intents and purposes, except for precise search of the title).
I suppose that limiting links to other content on the page which use the keywords may be the next step, and largely ignoring the words I am trying to convey. Unlearning everything that worked for 10 years in SEO and still works with Bing (which is providing me personally with better answers to general questions, by the way).
-
Thank you. I agree, but have certainly seen sites (other my own) which go right to the top of the SERPS due to keyword density, as they have little content and no backlinks, so it does still seem to me to be a matter of some concern. If you don't mention keywords, how is an algorithm supposed to know what the page is about or is emphasizing on a site with thousands of pages?
Thank you again for your response.
-
I don't think you can put a general % on keyword density. So long as it reads well and doesn't appeared to be stuffed, it should be fine. Mention it as many times as you can without it appearing forced. There's no doubt that having a keyword appear more times on the page will help Google deduce what the page is about, but similarly anything that would compromise a user experience or attempts to over-optimise for the algorithm can easily be penalised. Saying what number this is though is highly dependent on context, so you can't put a broad figure on an "optimal level"
If you haven't changed the density on the page, I don't believe that your density level would have caused a fall in your rankings (unless it was overdone, as said before). The strength this signal has on your rankings would be small at best, so there's very likely another reason for the fall. I'd start looking at other on-page factors and especially what sort of links you might have earned recently (or indeed lost).
-
There is no longer such thing as "keyword density". This should not be part of any SEO startegy.
Calculating this is a waste of time.
There are pages that rank without having the keyword on the page - seomoz has a good blog post on the subject by Rand I think.
It dose help to have the keyword on url and in the title tag and in h1 and at least once in the actual content but there is no magic formula.
I hate the statement "what is good for the user" as it is over used ny Google but in this case it dose make sense - it can be used once or 10 times or 100 times in the page as long as it make sense for the user and if you read the text is natural and no forced sentences or words. Synonyms of the word or alternative of the phrase are also a very good choice and google can associate those very well.
Personally I never take this in consideration to any of the projects - I used to (back in 2004-2005) when it was important but now based on industry opinions, google's statements and personal tests there is no magic formula and no help if you work on keyword density.
My 2 cents. Hope it helps.
Got a burning SEO question?
Subscribe to Moz Pro to gain full access to Q&A, answer questions, and ask your own.
Browse Questions
Explore more categories
-
Moz Tools
Chat with the community about the Moz tools.
-
SEO Tactics
Discuss the SEO process with fellow marketers
-
Community
Discuss industry events, jobs, and news!
-
Digital Marketing
Chat about tactics outside of SEO
-
Research & Trends
Dive into research and trends in the search industry.
-
Support
Connect on product support and feature requests.
Related Questions
-
How do we find keyword opportunities - but not just against 3 competitors...
Hello everyone! How can I find out what might be a keyword opportunity against a competitor but make sure it's still a realistic opportunity in SERPS generally?* After all, we are not just competing with 2 or 3 competitors. We are competing against everyone! Perhaps there is a part of the keyword research process that helps? I can't help but think there's a wasted effort to just beat a couple of competitors unless you can rank well generally - especially if it's a competitive sector. (*I'm not in the position of making lots of pages as part of a long-tail keyword/ content strategy so I need to focus on just a few and make them count) Thanks in advance. Mp
Competitive Research | | mark_seomoz10 -
Finding competitors best keywords?
How do I learn my competitor's best keywords? I realize I can add more keywords to my campaign but the problem is - I am not sure I am thinking of the right keywords. I don't want to compare with the keywords I am targeting - I want to know what THEY are targeting.
Competitive Research | | dealblogger1 -
Is this keyword stuffing?
This is one of my competitor's sites. I ran the on-page report card and the word Hyundai is on the page 102 times, and 67 times in the body. Here is the link: http://www.rosenhyundai.com I would love to hear your guys opinion, if this is keyword stuffing and could it get penalized by panda? Thanks for your help.
Competitive Research | | PeterRota0 -
What's the value of Exact Match Keyword Domains vs. Company Name Domains?
Hey Mozers, I was in a discussion this morning about the value of Exact Match Keyword domains vs. a company name domain and wanted to get a little more clarification. Let's say we are doing a site for a company called Favored Dental, and they have had the domain favoredental.com for quite a while and have their authority built up in it. Is it better to have favored-dental.com or favoreddental.co or keep its current form? The reasoning behind the alternate domains would be they have the exact match keyterm, in this case lets say "Favored Dental" is the keyterm we were going after. To my knowledge EMDs aren't as relevant as they'd use to be as Google would rather branding of companies instead of keyterm domains? Is this correct, or do EMDs of keywords you're going after hold higher authority? Thanks for the clarification!
Competitive Research | | MonsterWeb280 -
Should I set up multiple websites with keywords in the domain?
I work for an e-commerce brand that manufactures sells 2-3 uniform products for medical professionals. Of course, we set out originally using our brand name as our domain name, and we will continue down that path. However, our best products are the premium lab coats we sell, and we're currently facing an uphill battle for the keyword combo, "lab coats" which is 44% competitive. In our ranking analysis, we can see that we're up against 2 major competitive forces: extremely high domain authority (i.e. Amazon & Ebay), and stores that have the phrase "lab coats" or the word "lab" in their domain name. We recently dropped the hosting package we had with the domain www.scrubsandlabcoats.net (which was redirecting to our primary domain) and our ranking dropped almost immediately afterwards. We put that site back up and now 301 redirect it to our main site but it doesn't look like we restored whatever it was that was in place on that site (before my time) because our rankings haven't improved back to where they were a few months ago. Question is: Would it make sense to purchase a domain with the combination of our brand name and the words "lab coats" and then put up a few pages with links to our top productus OR would that be no more effective than what we already have in place (www.ourdomain.com/lab-coats.html)? Also, any guesses on what kind of crazy set up we used to have on that other domain (scrubsandlabcoats.net) that was helping us in the past? Really appreciate the help!
Competitive Research | | dstepchew0 -
Is it possible to see how many visitors a competitor has received for any given keyword over a set time period?
Is it possible to see how many visitors a competitor has received for any given keyword over a set time period via either Organic / Paid means? Thanks
Competitive Research | | jaycfc1230070 -
Any chance to out rank Google flight data for company name?
If you search any number with "co" after it you get Continental Airlines flight information of the corresponding number. So you if you search "4co" you get the current flight details for Continental flight 4. Is there any chance if you have a company called 4CO and you own 4co.com that you could get the number one spot for that term or will google flight results always trump the "organic" results? Thanks!
Competitive Research | | 2comarketing0 -
Ranking keyword VCA
We want to rank higher on the keyword VCA. Our direct competitor VCAnederland ranks one place higher and we want that place. If we look at some statics from the Open site explorer, we score better. PA: VCAdirect = 53 VS competitor = 46 DA: VCAdirect = 43 VS competitor = 39 Total links = VCAdirect = 8415 VS competitor = 3051 External followed links = VCAdirect = 8178 VS competitor = 1059 Linking root domains = VCAdirect = 146 VS competitor = 105 SEOmoz competitive Domain Analysis (gives other numbers) DA: VCAdirect = 44 VS competitor = 40 DMozrank: VCAdirect = 4.30 VS competitor = 4.50 DMozTrust: VCAdirect = 4.00 VS competitor = 4.18 when I analyze the site with the SEOmoz tool. We see this figures: VCAdirect: PA: 53 / MozR: 5.89 / MozT: 5.89 / Tot links 8415 VCAnederland: PA: 46 / MozR: 6.95 / MozT: 6.16 / Tot links 3051 On the on page Report card we score both an A. Where should we focus on to win the position?
Competitive Research | | PlusPort0