Ranking without SEO?

[SEOhughesm]

We have a client that we've been doing white-hat SEO for for over 3 years and they've always been number 1 in Google for all their targeted keywords. This year, their competition has been ranking above them and our client has been pushed towards the bottom of the first page. After thorough research, we discovered that this competitor is doing no SEO at all, just regular PR which our client is also doing. Our client is even spending money in Adwords and their competition isn't. Can anyone explain how a website that does zero SEO can magically be ranked at the top now and above our competitor who we're doing everything possible for?

[Andy.Drinkwater]

I've been doing it for years and have never come across this issue.

Look towards an algorithmic penalty too. There is no telling what could have caused this, so you need to cover all bases.

-Andy

[SEOhughesm]

Yep, our website has that as well. This isn't my first time doing SEO, I've been doing it for years and have never come across this issue. And yes, I'm using all the tools everyone suggested. I've done all of the "investigating" you're all suggesting, which is why I'm still stumped and asking. And it's not completely true that not spending in Adwords won't affect seo -- I've seen a lift in seo from paid ads for every single client. Coincidental? Probably not completely.

[EGOL]

Can anyone explain how a website that does zero SEO can magically be ranked at the top now and above our competitor who we're doing everything possible for?

I'll bet that wikipedia does almost no SEO.  They simply have a great template and great content.

Having a website full of great content is better than having two SEOs and five shills working full time.

[Andy.Drinkwater]

Without actually looking at both sites, it is impossible to say why. It could be something or nothing. It could be just one link or over optimisation on your site?

I would do some digging and see what you come up with.

-Andy

[SEOhughesm]

Thanks all! When I said "no SEO" yes I'm sure they're doing some SEO here and there. But they don't even have title tags on their website which is bizarre to me since that's the foundation of on-site SEO. And in regards to content, we promote great, unique content all the time as well as through social channels. We have used tools like Moz, Ahref, and many others which is why I'm asking here to get some new insight we haven't thought of yet.

[O2C]

Doing 'No SEO' is probably a bit of a big assumption to make about your competitors. I'd be interested to know how you are coming to that conclusion.

Are they using the same PR channels as you or different?

It could be that Google just thinks your competitors content is more relevant to the users who are searching for the search terms. There are allot of articles around at the moment that suggest Google focuses on user behaviour to conclude SERPS.

We know how frustrating it can be knowing that you are doing everything correct in terms of SEO guidelines and still not performing above clients who look to be using black-hat techniques.

If you haven't done so already I would do a more thorough investigation into what might be causing your competitors to rank high. Use MOZ and other well known SEO tools to compare metrics like backlinks etc.

[Andy.Drinkwater]

Hi Deedra,

It isn't about SEO per se, but if your client are trying too hard and then along comes a number of other clients, one who seemingly does no SEO at all, then you would have to look at both their content and backlinks. If someone is writing content (or has content) that Google sees as more reputable, then this could easily be part of their success.

If they are sharing externally, or via social channels, this could also be having a big positive push for them.

Our client is even spending money in Adwords and their competition isn't

This will have no impact on SEO at all.

Make sure that any link building you are doing is from good sources - make sure all content is amazing and better than others - make sure there is enough for other to want to share them through Social Media.

-Andy